quote:

Originally posted by Sentinel400:
They are becoming cheap enough for me to consider them now, but it will probably depend on how good the camera is. I haven't been impressed by the shots I've seen so far.
My current Sony Ericsson is v disappointing in that department after the brilliant camera on previous model so I could maybe be tempted...

Well, heck, if I lived in the UK I'd pick one up regardless of camera quality:



O2 basically subsidizing the entire price of the iPhone depending on plan is *very* nice indeed.

I'm with AT&T right now and using the surprisingly nice SE w580i (just got it with a 2 year contract), so I'll probably just wait until the iPhone deals get even sweeter 18 months down the pike...

quote:

Originally posted by doggo:

quote:

Originally posted by Wanderer:
It. Is. Not. A. Camera.

Sure it is.

David, you of all people, should know, that the camera you have on you when there's a good shot, is the best camera in the world.

I agree with the sentiment. I just think that if you enjoy photography and the best thing you have on you is a phone, you should ask yourself some questions.

It's a bit like a race car driver settling for a matchbox car.

quote:

I agree with the sentiment. I just think that if you enjoy photography and the best thing you have on you is a phone, you should ask yourself some questions.

Oh come on. That's a bit much.

More like: "...if you're a professional photographer/photojournalist and the best thing you have on you is a phone, you should ask yourself some questions."

Even then, your camera/s could have been stolen/destroyed/malfunctioning.

Of course I wouldn't advocate your iPhone, or even another mobile with more megapixels, as your primary camera. Unless you're just a snapshooter. But backup cameras are common for photographers.

And since I'm not a pro, or even an obsessive amateur, there may, indeed, be times when the only camera I have on my person is a phone. It doesn't seem unreasonable or questionable for that to be the case.

Also, I don't miss the SLR thunking me in the chest when I ran to catch the bus back in the old days.

Besides, those old mechanical SLRs, and even the new DSLRs, well, you just can't play Super Monkey Ball on them.

quote:

Originally posted by Justy:

Damn thats expensive!

I pay 10€ ( € not £ ) a month for 100 free minutes and 1GB of data. (And I am still on the old contract.)

And it is not like 3 is any more expensive in the uk either.

For those who have them:

What can you not do? What is the thing you'd like to be able to do but cannot?

I'd assume image editing, or multi-window chat, any kind of serious coding\writing, and so forth would be activities which would require a real machine.

But besides things you'd probably rather do on a real computer anyway (with the full keyboard, mouse, larger pretty monitor) what can't the iPhone do in terms of function e-stuff?

The answer to that, jbx, is pretty much nothing. I have a friend who's anticipating, at the very least, a basic sequencer coming for the iPhone; TomTom is working on turn-by-turn directions that will interface with the GPS; I'd imagine that someone will write a terminal emulator sooner rather than later (for hilarious counterpoint: http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=iphone). The SDK opens the options up nicely.

The iPhone may turn out to be a pretty ingenious little Swiss Army knife of a device.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Justy,

For those that have them, I think the only thing you're missing is the GPS & 3G connetivity. You'll be able to upgrade your current iPhone ot the version 2 software, which will give you about 80% of the new features (sans 3G and GPS of course).

I'd definitely start there and then see what happens. Depending on contract prices, I may finally bow down and grab an 8gb one. I was plenty annoyed they made the phones yet again thinner instead of doing something useful with the space like bumping the storage capacity, but otherwise impressed.

As for Snow Leopard, I think they demo'd it in the afternoon. Haven't looked around yet to see what new stuff was in it. I've heard it's almost exclusively about speed and stability updates though (with a side of developer goodies thrown in). Nothing major like Time Machine mentioned yet.

I'm crossing my fingers that Snow Leopard will still support PPC chips, but won't be surprised if it doesn't. By the time it's released, the newest PPC machines will be 3 years old, and Snow Leopard might push some people over the edge to replace them.

quote:

Originally posted by Kradlum:
Considering I don't spend more than about £20 a year on calls and texts, I don't think I could ever justify getting an iPhone, or even upgrading my ancient pay-as-you-go Nokia.

However, viewing it as an MP3 player with bonus phone functionality, and a camera (if the camera is at least reasonable), then I could possibly be tempted if they sold a pay-as-you-go model.

My God, I'm not alone!

almost on topic :

I have an iPod Touch.
I traded a Nano for it.

I hate the damn thing.

It has so much potential, but it locks it away.
And, yes, it is 'jailbroken'.

That does not help :

- What is the point of a a wifi video-playing device that cannot play most formats, and cannot access files shared on a private network?

- What is the point of a wifi audio-playing device that cannot play most formats, and canot access files shared on a private network?

- What is the point of a portable wifi touch screen that does not offer any half-decent VNC client, so we can use it to remote-control a computer?


I am not trolling (not consciously, at least).
I am simply remarking that the Touch and iPhone devices have so much potential, yet they ruin it by not delivering the goods.

Arkan: I think the iPhone SDK may go a long way toward giving programmers the opportunity to fill those gaps (and it's reasonable to see them as gaps). I hope so, anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by doggo:
IT'S THE CONVERGENCE!

I believe it was the great (semi-) Chinese philosopher Lithos who said, "If you lose it, you're fucked."

And knowing how you "It's not a computer/phone, it's a lifestyle" people get when you lose that one "shiny" gadget you people put so much faith in, you'd take it worse than Lance Armstrong. Ballsy bastard went on to win seven consecutive Tours de France. What happens when the battery dies?

7-11's have cameras, too. Wouldn't trust 'em to take a decent picture, though. It's the camera for people who want to say they have a camera on 'em but really couldn't give a rat's arse about the photos.

Put it this way - would you carry a camera if the thing wasn't value-added welded onto the phone? I doubt it. They're big, they're clumsy, they take different batteries and, occasionally, memory cards, and, dammit, when you catch that upskirt of that comatose teenager at the disco, well, you have to leave that incriminating evidence on on the silicon instead of sending it off to the guy who runs "that" website. It's convenient that it's on there, sure - the London bombings were proof of this - but it'll take more than a flickr page to convince me. Bright sunlight, and it's got the noise of my digi set to ISO3200 - it's what you get when you've got a CCD the size of a mouse's gallbladder. And a lens the same size as the one in its eye. And that JPEG compression and sharpening is nothing short of molestation.

Of course you can capture high art on it, but that's a category not bound by either common sense, the laws of decency or even the laws of nature, but more on the quality of your artist's statement.

If you're buying this for the camera and the numerous othe widgets on it, you'd better be grateful the damn thing don't have GPS, for you'd be able to see exactly how much you missed the point.

And, to quote - verbatim Aisha! - the father of the great (semi-) Chinese philosopher, "...who wants to surf the net on a fuckin' three-inch screen?"

Justy's Swiss Army Knife analogy's good. IPhone (fuck your disrespect for grammar, Jobs, you third-rate Gates) may have , but, really, did any of you click this thread because you saw a chance to grab a handheld gizmo with which you could hacketh thy Gibson over whilst wardriving in your Neo-Volkswagen outside a hotel? Or, did you, as I suspect, come here because there was fruit in the title? I know that's what I did, but for different reasons. Those SAKs come with reamers - how many people who buy those things use the reamer on 'em? Not many, because you can never get the damn things open.

The Torvalds' of this world'd rewrite firmware for a microwave just because they can. It's not as if the IPhone's are the only device capable of having software.

Nope, the sales'll be for all the marketing hype, all the Oprahism, all the fellatio performed by Wired, not so much because anyone gives a crap about the features. And, hell, the Apple hype's got nothing the hype MS cooked up for Halo - so even the ever faeces-spouting Apple Fascist Marketing Regiment still couldn't beat them in that respect. It's a pair of Calvin Klein undies, nothing more. A Starbucks latté. A Rolex watch.

People want it because they were told it's cool. That's it. Advertising, the world's finest agitprop. You're less without this - don't ask why, trust us now. Whack it on the MasterCard now.

quote:

Originally posted by Wanderer:

quote:

Originally posted by doggo:

quote:

Originally posted by Wanderer:
It. Is. Not. A. Camera.

Sure it is.

David, you of all people, should know, that the camera you have on you when there's a good shot, is the best camera in the world.

I agree with the sentiment. I just think that if you enjoy photography and the best thing you have on you is a phone, you should ask yourself some questions.

It's a bit like a race car driver settling for a matchbox car.

But, I don't want to carry a decent camera with me at all times. Not when I'm dashing round with work, running to the supermarket quickly etc etc.. Its great to have as a "wow, must take a quick snap of that, thats cool" addition to life.

quote:

Originally posted by Newro:
Damn thats expensive!

I pay 10€ ( € not £ ) a month for 100 free minutes and 1GB of data. (And I am still on the old contract.)

And it is not like 3 is any more expensive in the uk either.

But their coverage is pants in the UK.. 90% of the people I know who have switched to 3 have switched back within the year.

As the annual contract on the one I have is expiring soon, it is very tempting. It is shiny. But yes, it's the data charges what will make it way too expensive here, too.

Already know several people that have hacked ones in use (in a way... lots of freezes and lock-ups) that are fuming about the 'low price' of the new one. But hey, they got to use it a few precious weeks before the rest of us : P

quote:

Originally posted by Wanderer:
I agree with the sentiment. I just think that if you enjoy photography and the best thing you have on you is a phone, you should ask yourself some questions.

It's a bit like a race car driver settling for a matchbox car.

Even while being involved with photography due to work since... well, many years, I was never much of a snapshooter until digital came around. It gave me freedom to experiment, instant response, ease of use. As equipment got smaller it became too easy to abuse it. Quality is still crap, for most consumer gear, but... even if I have a multimegapixel camera in the bag, I might reach for the cell for a quick, spur of the moment shot. Why? Because most of the time, the observer influences the observed and the moment changes, the event goes away. There are moment when yes, the full hi-res gear is out and the quality goes skyhigh but it's not the same.
Guess it depends on specific situations.

Arkan, I know what you mean about the Touch. The 2.0 software can be loaded onto it ($10 charge here in the US, not sure about other countries) so maybe there will be more functionality coming from 3rd party developers shortly...

OTOH, the Touch sadly isn't viable for my mp3 storage needs since it's still flash-based.

If I get an iPhone it will be for the ease of syncing addresses and calendars and such--not for the mp3/photography hardware. Although I can see myself loving the hell out of pulling up Google maps and getting a mall-style "you are here" marker on it...

quote:

Originally posted by ArkanGL:
- What is the point of a portable wifi touch screen that does not offer any half-decent VNC client, so we can use it to remote-control a computer?

Actually there is an app called "Touchpad" which acts as a remote controller via VNC. I don't use it though.

After nearly six months, the things I like about my iPhone are :
-it's fast and responsive.
-The touch sceen is really a must for a phone. In two finger clicks I can make a call to one of my favorite contacts, choosing among its multiple phone numbers. With my previous phone i had to go through 2 ou 3 menus to be able to choose between multiple phone numbers for a contact. Finally I had to create several contacts : XXX work, XXXX home, XXXX portable.
-I really got sick of menus in phones.
-You can use it to surf the real WEB (not a wap ersatz) and it's usable. Flash is not supported but I usually zap Flash based web sites.
-SMS conversations. When you exchange SMS with someone, the iPhone shows it as a conversation. iPhone SMS
-I'm never lost in a city with Google Maps. and I don't have to think about printing the map before leaving.
-It's hackable. I don't think I would have bought one if Apple had managed to keep it locked. Thanks to a hack I can surf the web over the EDGE for 6 euros a month above a cheap pay per use phone contract (Orange Mobicarte).

I think I'll get an iPhone 3G in a few months because 3G and GPS were really the features I was waiting for.


I was a geek, I used to choose my devices after a thorough comparison of the specs. Picking the one having
the greater number of features for the smallest price.
But I've realized that I never use most of these features because either I don't really need them or they're not really usable anyway.
Now, I try to figure out what are the features I really need (which is not so easy), and I pick the object that is the best for these features.
For example I don't care that the iPhone don't have MMS or real bluetooth capabilities. That's seem like a step back in time but who send MMS anyway ? I've sent maybe 4 MMS in my entire life and half of them were never received.

What I like about Apple approach to design is that they really try to make the device usable, they're not trying to put as much features as they can.

quote:

Actually there is an app called "Touchpad" which acts as a remote controller via VNC.

I know.
Reportedly, it sucks.
And it's not free.

VNSea does the same for free.
And it sucks too.

A new apple of Apple's eye
Jun 9th 2008
From Economist.com

A new iPhone causes excitement, but Apple has a long way to go in the global smartphone market


NEARLY a year after the launch of Apple's iPhone, a new version of the smartphone was expected to be unveiled on Monday June 9th. New features were tipped to include faster 3G connectivity, which will help to boost the company's share of the booming smartphone market. The iPhone already takes 20% of the market in America, but has some way to go worldwide. In the first quarter of 2008 1.7m iPhones were sold, according to Gartner, a research firm. But Nokia sold over 14.6m sets, an increase of 25%, while Research In Motion, manufacturers of BlackBerry, upped its market share by around 5 percentage points.