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The thread *about* writing|
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I was just thinking about how often I go off on tangents in Write Something Now or What Happened To You Today about writing-- how we do it or fail to do it, strategies, making up character names (OK, that wasn't me), what the best music for writing is, on and on. I thought it might be useful to have a thread for this, like the photography one. People who don't care about this stuff can avoid it, and people who obsess over it have a one stop thread to get their hit. If I'm wrong, this thread will sink into obscurity. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Come to think of it, there may have been another thread... Anyway, my latest worry is that I'm just incredibly slow at writing. My first drafts dribble out at 300 to 500 words a day, when I manage to work on them. What's my problem? Is it a problem? I spend a lot of time fussing over word choice and sentence structure, even on the first draft, and even more time just sitting, staring into space, trying to figure out what's going to happen next. It seems to work for me, though. So, what works for you? Or, you know, whatever you want to talk about. |
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Oh yeah, we don't have to stick to novels and short stories. Comic book writing, screenplay writing, article writing? I'm interested in all of it.
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there was a period there where i would write a lot. my job at the time was working in a bookstore, so i had words on the brain constantly. i would wake up and write first thing if i didn't have to go in and open that day.
it worked pretty well, something about having thought about where i left off the previous day or those thoughts had time to gestate while i slept at night. or else if it was time for something new i'd be that much closer to the inspiring dream state.... *************************************************** * MEB_Registered: 20122002 |
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I've been writing out my comic lately- Like a shirt story-
It's better for when I am coming down to the illustrating part- It helps me cut out the stuff that has no real value to the story- I've wasted a lot of time drawing out parts that I won't ever use- After that come the note cards, one for each board I draw- It a lot of note cards at times- Depending on what I want to happen on each page- This helps me get organized, and figure out where everything is supposed to go- I try to leave myself open for a lot of change- ---------------------------------------------- It's a bad recording- |
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i think there has been a lot of talk about writing. but i think it has always been in the write something thread, don't think we ever had a dedicated thread. though, its possible that i misremember.
my writing is, for the most part, an esoteric thing. to a degree i need to get out lots, see lots, soak up the world and let it inspire me in all its little ways. when i was driving for 3 hours a day i wasn't getting the right inspiration, so did tend to feel i wasn't writing as much. i should try getting some discipline, trying to focus more, getting motivated and involved. i have been writing more with the new year. at the moment, hand writing first draft is working best for me. taking time to sit aside with a pad and write get thes focus, then actually typing it up is what is taking the time. on bigger projects, from nanowrimo experience, i start trying to sketch out the shape of the idea. taking time to write a road map, where point A is and where point Z is. adding steps in between as i go, and adjusting those steps and the general route as it becomes clearer what will or won't work. um. which is all rambly. and just me wanting to contribute and encourage this thread. |
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this is something i came across in my saved reference file at work the other day while bored. its a talk by the writer ken macleod, talking about writing. so, i guess its relevant to this thread...
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Nice idea for a thread.
In my case, writing is viral. Same goes for all the products of my fleeting creativity. I get these...externally-fuelled compulsions. Historically, the two examples that'll be most relevant to the regulars here who don't have me on ignore will be "Blurb It" and "Fanta Shokata". In each case, someone else posted something that triggered something awful in me, and I just played it to exhaustion. That's how it works, with me; I beat somebody else's idea to a dry, thoroughly-winnowed death. And then either I stand around waiting for someone to bring more wheat, or I slouch off to go looking for barley. I can't "self-start" my imagination. It needs raw ingredients and a catalyst. That's why I've never had any pretensions to writing as a profession. I'd starve to death in a dark, unheated room. But, thankfully, the catalysts can be absurdly small. A Greek chick's accent. Some Gaimanii chick's assertion that she eats houses. The premise that William Gibson is a mind-controlling charismatic cult leader in Bollywood cinema... Oh, wait; that last one's mine. Sorry. |
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One page a day of finished manuscript will give you a book in a year, and a book a year ain't bad. Personally, I'm a binge writer, with intense periods of 10-20 pages a day interspersed with long periods of nothing at all. I don't do anything else. I don't teach, edit or have an honest job. I've done nothing but write for 30 years. The hard part about this is it's hard to blame nonproductivity on someone else. I know writers who produce under conditions that would be impossible to me. Writing is as much a matter of temperament as anything else.
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That's exactly what I'm doing right now. I'm elaborating on one of my write something now bits and hopefully turn it into the next episode. |
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I remember when I was writing the first draft of Sweet Moonlight there were a few weeks of 700 to 1000 words a day. It seemed like a ridiculously fast pace.
That Ken MacLeod thing brought back another point for me: outlines. I don't do outlines. At least, I don't do them well. When I start trying to do an outline it never seems to lead to a story. I can't seem to sit down and say, "here is the structure of the story, point A and point Z, and how I will get between them." Instead, I usually just start at point A with some foggy idea of where I want to end up, and wander along, finding my way as I go. I have a feeling it's a bad habit, but I can't seem to get into outlines. Oh, and the editing thing, the adverb hunt. Very good idea, I think. On the other hand, I think (perhaps wrongly) that my writing is reasonably sparse on the excess words, most of the time. I thought Ken's description of Njal's Saga was just fine-- the kind of writing I like to see. Most often I'm worried that I'm not writing enough, and that the story is progressing too quickly. |
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They taught us outlines in high school. I thought they were a retarded idea even then, but I didn't win that argument with the teachers.
I still can't use them, simply because none of my stories are ever resolved when I begin writing them. Not even the two-sentence jobs in Short Short Stories. My mouth utters sentences that haven't finished forming in my brain yet. My typing's much the same. |
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I love writing lyrical type prose.
Grant proposals, not so much, but the check at the end is nice. As far as I'm concerned, I prefer silent vice to ostentatious virtue. -Albert Einstein |
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I started writing in poetry-
I wanted to be one when I was in jr high- Then I realized most of what I wrote in that form was too personal and i didn't want to let it out of my sight- I have books of it sitting on the self right now- Outlines can kiss my butt- I've tried and failed at them- I had an english teacher my freshman year who tried to teach me outlines- I couldn't get them- In the end she told me that it was the shit she had to teach- And she often let me just hand in a finished short stories for the assignment- She had more concern about my horrible grammar- Advice I gave a girlfriend of mine who is starting out in writing is- Just to figure out what you are going to write right now- If something else pops up toss it in there- If it doesn't work throw it out- I gave her note cards for names- In the past when I wanted to write novels, name lists kept me from mixing thing up ---------------------------------------------- It's a bad recording- |
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I have a lot of trouble thinking linearly, so
outlines are really difficult for me. I'll start with one outline, decide it doesn't work halfway through the project, then change it again, and eventually end up with something strikingly similar to the first outline. Luckily, I don't need to do an outline too many times. For the generic field reporting, I've pretty much internalized the standard outline and follow it without much thought. Of course, I don't actually write any of my documents linearly. I jump from section to section depending on what I feel I have properly internalized at the time, then go back and work out the flow at the end. -- Fanaticism is nowhere. There's no tenderness or humanity in fanaticism. - Joe Strummer |
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Most of what I write, a bit opposed to MD above, has an in-built outline, as I usually have to present an abstract weeks or months before the actual deadline. And a title, which is usually the worst part of it, proposing a title before the piece is written. Even when the abstract is not necessary I make one anyway, just to clarify the expected content. Although that is less than a classic outline, to write a good abstract you need to have an outline in your mind.
That said, the actual writing, usually propelled by a looming deadline, is in my case quite fluid, as I usually have a clear idea of what I cannot say and an abstract fixing what has to be said. Of course, almost all is non-fiction, so it is more a matter of remembering noteworthy aspects than imagining them. The nature of the beast, usually with recommended minimum and maximum size, makes me over-write, be verbose, and then prune down to size. Much easier than ballooning a brief article. That can be seen in my writing style at the WGB, as I tend to write two types of posts, abstract mode and article mode. Just remember that for each post in abstract mode there is a potential huge post waiting on the wings. Retired |
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Kinda want to do some fiction at some point (which probably means I never will), but most of my writing is academic. In a sense I'm in a 2 year slump when I've basically published no refereed journal articles... which is actually imperilling my career if I don't rememdy it soon. In that time, though, I'll have written one book, co-written three and published two book chapters. Applied for a heap of grants, and got one, too. Taught some courses, served on some committees, attended some conferences and too many meeting. It's just that under the current rules of academica in Australia those things don't really count.
I'm pretty blessed in that I find it easy to write papers fast. Sometimes they're research reports, but sometimes I'll be reading something and a couple of ideas or theoretical frameworks will bang together and strike sparks, and I'll knock off something theoretical in a couple of days. I think part of the block has been that I have a research study that is about 90% finished and want to publish it, but to finish it I need to do maybe 40 hours of video transcription and analysis, and it's tough to find a chunk of time to do that. The last of the science textbooks should be submitted this week, so after that it's just proof-reading for that project and it'll be time to get back into publishing. I think the other part of the problem is not doing enough good academic reading lately to get those sparks happening. ________________________ differently mediated |
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Like MD, the writing is very 'electronic' and non-linear, always.
________________________ differently mediated |
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i think one mistake that people are making with outlines is having the idea that once you have an outline it is set in stone. that, for me, shouldn't be the case.
i recognise the issues people are describing. i don't think naturally in outlines. i'm like MOM, i need something from the outside to trigger me. but, from what he said, i guess i am more consciously looking and seeking those triggers? regardless. i tend to write something. a short piece, a fragment, which i'll post in "write something now", most often. then it'll expand in my head, and build if i am lucky. which is often why the pattern of some of my pieces might seem odd. but sometimes i'll have this random other idea. totally disconnected from the first. then the trick is to try and tie the two together. thats when i start to get something growing and hope it will be bigger. and then thats when i can start think of outlines. but an outline is just a rough guide to keep track of what i think is happening. if what i think is happening isn't then the outline changes to the next thing i think is happening. outlines are also useful because like a few folk have said, i don't think linearly. in my novel writing attempts i end up with a separate document per "chapter", and if i get stuck in one then i switch to another. so my writing/thinking can be all over the place. having an outline can help me keep track of that. but, sometimes, the outline can be the very tool that closes the gap. if i have a character talking to Mr.X in chapter 2, and something happens to Mr.X in chapter 5, how does that affect the character in chapter 6? what does that character do? how does that character react/think? and in order to get to that point, what do i need to write? perhaps not the greatest example, but its a rough. i've said it before, for me an idea builds from bullet points. that is my outline. as it goes on, those bullet points become paragraphs. and so on. though, the outline is always a thing seperate from the writing, so shouldn't be confused as something that keeps growing as a file until it is a novel. those are my thoughts anyway. |
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That's typically my method of editing, too.
I just ramble. -- Fanaticism is nowhere. There's no tenderness or humanity in fanaticism. - Joe Strummer |
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