"i can always "take the time out of my day to be all snuggly ." and this whole discussion seems to be generalizing a lot."

How so? Any in particular or are you generalizing?

it's fun asking guys out. the expression... it's similar to that pavlovian response my cat arrives at when i open the cabinet for her dinner. i've asked out nearly all of the men i've dated and i've never been rejected. more women should be the first to initiate a relationship. very few men truly understand us anyway. why put them through the sort of thing night is going through.

I'm with CKC on this, but who am I to judge?
Nice threadjack

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Honesty? It is a good idea in theory... but its funny how someone's 'honesty' can go through changes in very short periods of time

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oh it's more than a theory. in my case, it's fact. a relationship is never free without honesty. myself, i prefer freedom over incarceration.

honesty is immutable. if it begins to go through changes, than it's not honesty anymore. therefore, the fact remains no?

Crash: yeah yeah yeah.

Oh yes. Thank Gond for those women that dare to verbalize what one's thinking. Life is too short, as they say.

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"I have been noticing you around campus. I find you very attractive.
...
(c) Would you go to bed with me tonight?"

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Ha. I used to like that song : )

Honesty is progressive and reality is mutable. I don't really believe anyone is capable of complete honesty, only honesty of expression. If we're talking about honesty in a relationship discussion, then there's probably expression of feelings involved. I can express my feelings totally honestly today, and then express them totally honestly tomorrow and they can be the opposite. I can express what I want today and what I want tomorrow and it can be the opposite. That's not lying, that's reality. Shit changes. And I can't tell you how many friends I've counseled through this issue and the dialog goes something like this:

"Just last week she was saying that she wanted us to have a committed relationship and today she says she thinks it's a good idea to see other people. I wish she would just be honest with me."

"Well, it's possible that she is being honest with you. Things change. It's also possible that she felt uncomfortable expressing her true feelings at some point, and so she lied. That's pretty crappy, but you know it's not uncommon. I'm sure you'll survive."

We are not creatures of rational perception, we are emotional creatures and creatures of the id, who sometimes practice rational perception. Most people, I think, don't really practice it at all. They just project their preferences onto a relatively reasonable palate and then make up the reasons to connect it to the source information. People do this all the time in relationships. Hurrah for inductive logic. But really it's natural, and I don't think people should be judged harshly for it. Judgment and bitterness never helped anyone's relationship.

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I'm going to be turning 32 this year. She's 21. Point against. MAJOR point against.

shouldn't be an issue my man. not in these times. if it is an issue, than she's not worthy. she may as well be wearing uggs.

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And I beg to differ. I think it definitely is an issue. I mean, what do I know. I'm just a 21 year-old who regularly dates men in their late twenties and early to mid thirties. The love of my life to date is now in his late thirties.

In my experience, men who will date a 21 year-old have some issues and young women who will date an older man have some issues. The issues vary. In my case, the men are usually terrified of growing up.

Although I will note that uggs are indeed awful.

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And I beg to differ...In my experience, men who will date a 21 year-old have some issues and young women who will date an older man have some issues. The issues vary. In my case, the men are usually terrified of growing up.

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i'm not sure that differs to what i'm getting at. and in your example, the issue isn't the age, it's the issues behind purposely dating people of a percieved "significantly different" age, however you can possibly measure that. really, there's only an age issue if you create one.
the real crux of the matter when an age difference is being addressed, is whether the two parties are compatible or not. if someone is "too young" or "too old", i think that really means that there is a difference in mentality or maturity. these differences must be dealt with in any relationship, regardless of age. therefore, as i see it, age ceases to be part of the equation.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: charmakarmacat,

Actually, I don't normally ask women out if they're more than ten years younger than me. Most of my reasoning behind that is because, as experience has shown me, MOST people in their early twenties are still learning about who they are as individuals, which means they're still growing up. I'm not out to raise anyone's kid, y'know?

But there ARE exceptions to every rule. My last girlfriend is 26 and I'd known her for years before we tried "being together." Didn't work out, mostly because of distance and the fact that she wanted someone else. So I gladly urged her to pursue what she wanted and don't feel bad about it at all. We're still very good friend, as a matter of fact.

These days I'm more interested in having a mature woman by my side than some flash in the pan. I've chatted this young lady up quite a bit over the last few months and have learned quite a bit about her, just from idle chit-chat. She's got a good head on her shoulders.

Can't say much more- gotta take a shower and head off to work. If I see her again tonight, I'll see if I can get her to give me HER number. What the hell, right? You only live once.

Wanna argue about it?

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it's the issues behind purposely dating people of a percieved "significantly different" age

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No, what I said was that it's the issues behind being willing to date someone of a significantly different age. Purposefully doing it is even worse, but just being open to it is enough, I think. I'm slightly horrified now at the older men that were willing to date me when I was 17, 18 and 19 even. I was still forming. I am still forming. No, the issue isn't the age itself, it's everything that comes with being a certain age. But that counts, doesn't it?

I'm not saying I stand behind that 100%, and I'm not going to date any more thirty-somethings. I don't know if I could. Frankly, I love thirty-somethings. They're calmer, and have less to prove. And they're great in bed. And they won't want to go out and party all the damned time. And they've read more. And they've got more life experience, more stories. And they go to bed earlier. And they know how to give head already, you don't have to teach them.

The big downside is they're sometimes looking to have kids in the next five years or so. That or they're ready for a long-term, monogamous relationship right away. It's unfortunate and all, because while it's very difficult to date geeks in their twenties (they haven't grown enough self-confidence yet) geeks in their early thirties tend to have settled into themselves. I figure I'll compromise and aim for 28 or so.

But I would like to stress that I think 'there's only an age issue if you create one' is kind of bull. If I were to date another thirty-something, there would be an age issue. Guaranteed. Even if I didn't want there to be one, there just is. Sometimes that's ok though.

In reply to your edit:

Yes, if I were the sort of 21 year-old who was ready to start having kids in the next five years, I might do much better with my thirty-something men.

But I'm not. And I think it's part of my appeal. I'm in college, I'm going to graduate college, I'm going to get a post-grad degree, I'm going to do research, I'm going to write, I'm going to learn and I'm going to conquer the goddamned world.

Then I'll have kids. Maybe ten years.

Or if I was after thirty-somethings who didn't really have all their shit together it'd be more workable. Guys who were still sorting out what they wanted. Guys who might be cool with long-term casual dating. Maybe guys who are doing the early-thirties career change. Guys who don't want kids. I'm not really into that.

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Originally posted by hurtstotouchfire:
I'm slightly horrified now at the older men that were willing to date me when I was 17, 18 and 19 even. I was still forming. I _am_ still forming.

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Read Moliere's "The School for Wives" - absolutely hilarious.


I had the great pleasure of seeing it performed at the Royal Danish Theatre by Jørgen Reenberg and Sidse Babett Knudsen. Damn! They were good!

Actually I think one of the issues that keeps coming up is the development of self-confidence. I still haven't got it down yet. So if I date people who are significantly more secure in themselves, I'm likely to lean on them. And it goes the other way too.

Incidentally, I think 26 and 32 sounds reasonable. Especially if the lady is through or almost through with college.

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Originally posted by hurtstotouchfire:
No, what I said was that it's the issues behind being willing to date someone of a significantly different age. Purposefully doing it is even worse, but just being open to it is enough, I think. I'm slightly horrified now at the older men that were willing to date me when I was 17, 18 and 19 even. I was still forming. I _am_ still forming. No, the issue isn't the age itself, it's everything that comes with being a certain age. But that counts, doesn't it?

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Amen. There's a difference between noticing how hella attractive an 18-20 year old is and actually being willing to go out with her. Or verse vica. Even if you have common interests, you're at such different points on the big Curve o' Life (don't ask, I have no idea what the definition for it really is) that the long-term prospects are nonexistent or weird and scary. Just my two cents.

EDIT: Of course, now I've said that, someone will pipe up about how happy they've been for the last 10 years, etc etc etc.

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the issue isn't the age itself, it's everything that comes with being a certain age. ....But I would like to stress that I think 'there's only an age issue if you create one' is kind of bull.

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we're saying the same thing, hurts. the difference is i don't like to lump "age" with all the stuff that "goes with it". all the stuff that goes with it will have to be handled regardless. i just think that by attaching other factors to a person's time alive only serves to eliminate possibilities. i think it'd be a terrible thing to miss out on something profound and special because i made a decision to only date women of a particular age group.

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Originally posted by charmakarmacat:
i think it'd be a terrible thing to miss out on something profound and special because i made a decision to only date women of a particular age group.

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It would. You'd also miss out on the terrible pain that such a relationship can bring.

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The bitter with the sweet.

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You'd also miss out on the terrible pain that such a relationship can bring.

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exactly. i enjoy those pains nearly as much as the happiness. i'm kind of into deep emotions and their intensity (don't have much choice really) and would feel a bit unfulfilled if i didn't get to mull over the bad ones too.

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...and would feel a bit unfulfilled if i didn't get to mull over the bad ones too.

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You mean like the uncharted heights that my anger is reaching over this last debacle? (viz. the reason I'm so bitter and pissy about women right now) You mean, like THOSE kinds of emotions? The ones that lead you to want to inflict pain on yourself just to remind yourself that you're alive? Like THOSE kinds of emotions?

Actually, I'm kind of enjoying being angry again. Feels like I've rediscovered myself.

CKC sez >>>> "a relationship is never free without honesty. myself, i prefer freedom over incarceration."

"Honey, do I look fat in this dress?"

Do you really want the honest answer? I submit you do not *EVER* want to know the truth and would choose the play for vanity instead.

"Crash: yeah yeah yeah. :wink:"

Noone puts kitty in corner, huh?

Anger and unhappiness can be positive emotions. They can motivate you to better your lot in life and produce an intensity of feeling like few other states of mind. Despair can give you a stubborn energy that lets you continue despite the apparent futility of the task. But be warned that these feelings will take their toll and will end up making you miserable. It’s just not worth the ride; try to be happy. Even if you're that upset about it, just remember that there will be another time, other friends. And it could be worse...

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Originally posted by Fashionpolice:
[gloat]
I'm not single! I'm not single!
[/gloat]

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Oooh, I hate you so much right now. Between this thread and impending Valentine’s Day, I’m starting to reconsider the potential memory-obliterating benefits of a severe concussion.

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"I have been noticing you around campus. I find you very attractive… Would you go to bed with me tonight?"

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The sad part is I know my reaction would be one of two things:
“Do we have to wait until tonight?”
Or, if I was in a saner state of mind,
“I know I didn’t just step into Penthouse Forum, and things like this DO NOT just happen to me. I don’t know what you want or who you are working for, but you have the wrong guy.”

No Baby, You look Phat!



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