A woman makes a pass at you and you assault her verbally - that's just plain ol' uncalled for. There was no reason that you couldn't say No politely, and word of behaviour like that gets spread around. You're creating your own bad reputation by behaving that way.

I really think you could use a class in negotiation skills. It could help you to focus on getting what you want rather than 'being right'. I hadn't really realized how often I was shooting myself in the foot until it became *so* obvious while taking a class on negotiation.

quote:

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Originally posted by Marshdrifter:
After? Why not during?

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Well, during you're not fat. You're pregnant. It's like being an alien.

I'm with FP on this one. The last guy I gave up on hesitated when asked "Would you rather be right or happy?" and then replied something to the effect of, but if I'm right I'll be happy.

But then again, I cut people a lot of slack, and pretty much try to be all-around nice to everyone. I partly make this effort because when I'm in social situations I can come off as a bitch because I get really closed up, so if I make the pointed effort, I come across as normal. Well, normalish. Well, not a huge bitch.

I solve my problems by not saying what I think while simultaneously ribboning an individual with my rapier like wit.

Of course, this all takes place in my mind, then I take a mylanta. Yeah, I have stomach ulcers.

They're the bad ones though, in my liver.

quote:

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Originally posted by hurtstotouchfire:
Well, during you're not fat. You're pregnant. It's like being an alien.

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Oooh...believe me you can get fat while being pregnant....

You can be both fat and pregnant at the same time. I know, I've tried it.

quote:

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Originally posted by hurtstotouchfire:

quote:

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Originally posted by Marshdrifter:
After? Why not during?

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Well, during you're not fat. You're pregnant. It's like being an alien.

I'm with FP on this one. The last guy I gave up on hesitated when asked "Would you rather be right or happy?" and then replied something to the effect of, but if I'm right I'll _be_ happy.

But then again, I cut people a lot of slack, and pretty much try to be all-around nice to everyone. I partly make this effort because when I'm in social situations I can come off as a bitch because I get really closed up, so if I make the pointed effort, I come across as normal. Well, normalish. Well, not a huge bitch.

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Of course I would have something stupid like "But my dear, the two aren't mutually exclusive; you can be right and happy, wrong and happy, wrong and sad or right and sad. But what'll make you happy?"

When I was a kid and didn't know any better, I often made the mistake of asking some of the cutest girls out for dates. I invariably got shot down with a serious bit of attitude thrown in- brutally so. Women are snide to men all the time, and most especially so if they happen to be physically attractive... because they feel that they can get away with it.

So there I was at the cafe, a single, mature, responsible, employed, relatively intelligent elligible bachelor in his thirties, trying to have a decent conversation with some friends. This chick, who I've seen "verbally assault" quite a number of less-than-attractive suitors who are otherwise very good people, comes up and asks me if I think she'd make a good girlfriend for someone like me. She asked because she felt that she could conquer me, one of the few guys at the cafe who seemed to aloof to swoon at mere flirtation. She said as much.

The woman got put in her place and was dealt a huge helping of humble pie. I struck one for the little guys she had snubbed in the past- and enjoyed it thoroughly.

I happen to be a BIG believer in honesty. If someone is stupid enough to ask me a loaded question, I'll fire a shot off with honesty, if only to teach 'em a lesson.

I have never been rejected, usually by not asking until I was sure of success (which meant most times she was asking me first). As well I have suffered a lot with a small (7 years, me older) age difference, but probably would have worked out ok with the same girl four years later when she finished at the University. And I have said no (more like "Mmm, mumble, mumble, it would not be a good idea, yes, that is it.").

Being not-single does not take you out of the game, it just changes a lot of the rules.

But it is still nice to get out with other women, even if there will be no sex in it. Or are you going to miss the most interesting half of population?

I specially love those WGB women I have met.

José

quote:

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Originally posted by Fashionpolice:
Are you guys familiar with this study:

Clark, R. D., & Hatfield, E. (1989). Gender differences in receptivity to sexual offers. Journal of Psychology and Human Sexuality, 2, 39-55.

I point it out to women all the time when they complain that no men are asking them out.

Here are the results:

quote:

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....an attractive man or woman confederate approached strangers of the opposite sex on a college campus and posed one of three randomly selected questions:
"I have been noticing you around campus. I find you very attractive.
(a) Would you go out with me tonight?
(b) Would you come over to my apartment tonight?
(c) Would you go to bed with me tonight?"
Of the women approached for a date, roughly 50% consented; of the women approached with an invitation to go back to the man's apartment, only 6% consented; and of the women approached with a request for sex, none consented.

Of the men approached, roughly 50% agreed to go out on a date (same percentage as women),
69% agreed to go back to the woman's apartment, and fully 75% agreed to go to bed with her that evening.

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Excellent information to have if you are a woman who wants to have sex. And the 25% of the men who refuse a sexual offer are always polite about it, and almost always are flattered by the proposition - or at least that's what the study says - I never encountered any of these guys myself

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Something I have seen on the Telie ... some years ago. (Yes, I watch television, it is one of this occasional features of mine ... and usually indicates that I am bored out of my big toe.)

However, they set up a real handsome guy into a car ... actually some sort of underwear model.

His goal was to drive down a shopping mile (no idea how I should call this sort of streets, bulevar maybe? but I guess you know what I mean.) ... ask girls if they want to go out for a cofe with him.

First Test, he was driving a Fiat Punto:
In avarage, 2 out of 10 said yes.

Second Test, he was driving a Jaguar XKR Convirtible:
In avarage, 9 out of 10 said yes.

Same guy, same cloths, same line ... make your own opinion.

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The funny thing is ... when you are single, you wish you would be in a relation ship, because it would makes things much easier and you don't have to try that hard all night long. (Not knowing if it was just a waste of time and money or you will find yourself lucky.)

Then when you are in a happy relationship, even if you love the person you are with, you catch yourself that you wish you where single again (just for one night), because of all the oppertunities you see and have to miss out ... and for the chance of trying out new things and taste from some of this temptations that come by.


What ever you do, just make the best out of it

"When I was a kid and didn't know any better, I often made the mistake of asking some of the cutest girls out for dates. I invariably got shot down with a serious bit of attitude thrown in- brutally so. Women are snide to men all the time, and most especially so if they happen to be physically attractive... because they feel that they can get away with it."

It's not that they can get away with it, it's that those ones have bad attitudes.

If they threw ANY attitude at you (like you did to that cute girl that asked YOU out), would you want to be them anyways?

If you want to spend the rest of your life with someone, or some decent leisure time, you don't want attitude. A bad attitude sucks the life-force right from your marrow, no matter what package it comes in.

Interestingly enough, I've been single for so long that I don't really make an effort to "try" and date people. There's a few female friends that I have who, when I feel like going out, I can readily call up and say, "Hey. Feel like going out? There's a movie I wanna see..." Typically, the answer is positive and we have a good time. No kissy-kissy stuff, no pressure. Just two friends going out and having a good time, being relaxed and enjoying some good conversation.

Some might call that a date. Some might even call it romantic. And I've been honest enough with all of my female friends to outright say, "Y'know, I find you quite attractive. If you ever wanna give it a go, I'm game." But beyond that, I don't push and just enjoy my friendships with them.

Some of them have remarked that their friendships with me are more fullfilling than most of the "relationships" they've had with other people in recent times. And yet they still resist the idea of "dating" me even though we certainly DO go out on dates.

Conclusion: women, friends or otherwise, are REALLY strange creatures when it comes to semantics.

"Interestingly enough, I've been single for so long that I don't really make an effort to "try" and date people. There's a few female friends that I have who, when I feel like going out, I can readily call up and say, "Hey. Feel like going out? There's a movie I wanna see..." Typically, the answer is positive and we have a good time. No kissy-kissy stuff, no pressure. Just two friends going out and having a good time, being relaxed and enjoying some good conversation..."

[more stuff edited out about NS being used]

Ah yes, the "friend" or what I call "nice-guy" syndrome (yes, it is a disease). Because you've crossed the dreaded f.r.i.e.n.d. threshold, there is no way for you to go back and be "romantic" with these girls. Hell, I am even cynical enough to say, based on your comments, that you are their fallback position.

The only outcomes of that are (1) they recharge their batteries and go find someone to be romantic with - nice way of saying knock boots (2) you feel there is more when there isn't - you are being led on and (3) you are still single.

It's nice that you spend time with these girls and do "friend" things but it's taking time away from you to actually date women who want to be romantic with you. If they were *REAL* friends, they would introduce you to their friends who were single, they would help YOU hook-up at a bar/club/social event. In the meantime, you need to cut back seeing these friends. They are *hurting* you and they are *hurting* America.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Crash,

I know what you mean Shadow.

I was single for quite some time ... (which means that I am in a rs for some years now) ... but before that, the longest thing I had to a relationship was maybe about 3 mounths.

Maybe because I am not the guy the average girl wants to live with, maybe I'm just unatractiv, maybe it was because of my day job and night school that i didn't found time, or maybe because deep down -> I didn't care. I never 'searched' for the right girl/woman ... I allways belived that one day you will simply meet her and figure out thats the one - which basicly was what happened.


The strange bit however was that I never had problems talking to girls and getting a date ... of course, sometimes the chemistry didn't worked out, but then ... let it be.
Most of the girls I picked up I considered ... hmmm, lets call them toys to past the time, usually sweet blond girls i had quite a list invited to parties and even introduced to my firends ... the problems started the moment a girl started to interest me ... in the sort of, I like the way we can talk about topics and enjoy her presence in other ways. That moment that happend, I cared for her. (Didn't happen that often, only two times to be honest.) And the moment I start caring for her I automatically treaded her good ... and in an honest way ... maybe she is the one stuff of thing, guess everybody knows what I mean.

But the funny bit was, at this moment ... things went down the hill ... it ended up in the sort of relationship Shadow describt. And after a while I learned to live with it.

Strange isn't it ... tread them like a toy, and your chances to feel lucky are quit good ... tread them with respect and you are just a friend. *shrugs* Something I never understood, the only thing that changed with age is, today, I wouldn't care ... and most likely I would be honest with the woman and tell her that I just want fun ... but then, I don't think that would have worked with the girls I dated when I was between 19 and 23.

Crash was writting basicly the same in a shorter way.

I wish we (males) would at least once get a useful female opinion about this "nice-guy-syndrome"!

"I was seeing a girl for about six weeks. Then someone stole the binoculars outta my truck."

Dating is soooo last century. I've recently signed up for intermediate and advanced stalking. The Lab portion should be a hoot.

"Crash was writting basicly the same in a shorter way.

I wish we (males) would at least once get a useful female opinion about this "nice-guy-syndrome"!

From the single ones, you won't get a straight answer. I guarantee that they have at least ONE "nice-guy" that they hang with or used to hang with.

I think FP is the only one actually being honest. She doesn't have anything to lose, after all, and is mature enough to talk the bottom-line.

I once asked one if the two ...

The answer was something rather cryptical ...
She: "Would you eat when you get it served out of my palm and wouldn't need to do anything for it?"
Me: "Yes"
She: (sighted) "Of course, you are a guy."

Now it all would have made ... sort of sence ... if I wouldn't have experienced the evening school effect -> You date girl during summer, things work out great you have a lot of fun ... then the school starts again, and you are busy all weekday (at night) ... if you are lucky the girl calls twice ... you call her every few days to say hi, and no sorry am busy ... just smalltalk over the phone ... two weeks pass, you have your first free weekend, call her to ask her out and? ... She is allready going out with some other guy, she meet last weekend and couldn't care less for you.

If you want, I call that the flower-syndrom.
You need to care for them and water them on a regual base or they are gone.

Combine that knowledge with what the she (tryed) to tell me and you find yourself a nice paradoxical: tread them enough and your just a friend, don't tread them and they are gone.

Conclution -> they (girls in the age between 20) don't know what they want?

She: "Would you eat when you get it served out of my palm and wouldn't need to do anything for it?"
Me: "Yes"
She: (sighted) "Of course, you are a guy."
--------------

Ask the same girl - who would you be more interested in? The guy who called you 2 days after getting your number or the guy that called you 8 days afterwards?

"if you are lucky the girl calls twice ... you call her every few days to say hi, and no sorry am busy ... just smalltalk over the phone ... two weeks pass, you have your first free weekend, call her to ask her out and? ... She is allready going out with some other guy, she meet last weekend and couldn't care less for you."

I guarantee the guy she ended up with just simply asked her out OR she was interested in him while losing interest in you.

Why did she lose interest?

The problem was that you were making too much "small talk" when you should have been making plans for the future (read: making dates). She doesn't need to hear questions like "what do you think about...?" over the phone. Save it for the actual date. The only thing you should be talking about over the phone is when you are going to see her next and what you will be doing. That's it. Save the small talk for when you are actually together romantically.

I bet your phone conversations were over an hour long and you thought you were getting somewhere.

Well, the time you spent talking to her over the phone, you could have met for coffee and *gasp* that's a date!

Everytime you open your mouth around this girl, you should have asked yourself - "Does this help me get what I want?" 8 times out of 10, I bet it doesn't so keep your mouth shut. Be classy. Be pleasant. And be "in-person".

Well, I could've assassinated the Lord Mayor of Brisbane.

I was coming down from the clocktower of City Hall and the door opened on the second floor. So I stepped out, thought it was the first floor, and took a photo of a rather interesting mirror that was there.

When the elevator came again, there was a uniformed council employee there. She noticed my camera 'round my neck and asked, "Are you doing the photography for Mayor?"

"Photography for the Mayor? Madam, this is a silver digital camera.* No, I'm not."

"Well, it's meant to be a secured floor."

"Secure? I got off here 'cause I thought it was the first floor."

"Oh."

Well, assassinated is a little dubious, but I feel pretty certain I could've gotten close enough to slap him with a moray eel.

*Psychoinductive knows what I mean.

Nice Guy Syndrome

Hmmm...This is definitely not something that I've experienced.

Number one, I've only been asked out by a handful of men and that was a *long* time ago. I've only turned down one date, back in high school when I was asked to the neighboring school's prom, but couldn't attend because I was in a *musical* (fade in Björk).... and luckily he never asked me out again, cause he really wasn't my type (fade out Björk).

I've always been the one doing the asking (or just plain ol' seducing). And numerous times I've crossed the line from being friends to being romantic, and have also managed to cross the line back to being just friends.

So my view on the "Nice Guy Syndrome" is that it doesn't exist, but then again nobody was asking me out.

The Jaguar versus the Fiat Punto study doesn't surprise me a bit. I was convinced that my husband must have money because he was living in a double dorm room, had his own phone line and a personal computer and ate large steaks for dinner. He was convinced I was as poor as a church mouse because I was only eating rice with soy sauce for dinner because I refused to pay Danish food prices.

It wasn't until after we were married that I discovered that he owed as much in student loans as I had saved up in the bank. That kind of evened things out. :-)

And yes, we were friends before we got romantic. I asked him out for dinner, and he interpreted that as meaning, "She wants to have sex with me", and he was right.

In his last post, Crash makes some very good points and I tend to agree with him.

There's this particular girl I've known for about two years now. I met her at the cafe I hang out at. I've always had an attraction to her and we've gone out a few times. And I've always been the "friend"-guy who she would use as a sort of surrogate boyfriend without getting involved physically or romantically. She'd ask me advice, have quiet conversations, flirt and everything else- but PARISH the thought of ever considering me as a potential boyfriend/mate. Oh no. NEVER that. Our friendship is far too good to ruin it on the off chance that we don't click, 'cause then there'll be this failed relationship-thing between us and it'll be awkward and can't I continue using you as a friend, pretty please?

So in the last month or so I've pretty much quit hanging out at the cafe. I've been working a lot, staying home more and generally looking after my own ass.

Guess who's been calling once a week to check in with me and see when I'll be coming to the cafe next?

So I told her last week that I'm trying to quit smoking and that going to the cafe, for me, would be too much of a temptation to start smoking again, so I'm gonna avoid the place. But, hey, if you really wanna see me why don't we get together for dinner or something? There's some good movies coming out soon, too. Maybe we can work out some time to spend together?

She took it hook, line and sinker.

I've deprived her of the chance to USE me and now she's starting to realize what she's missing.

This week we'll be going out to dinner and a movie. No cafe. No third-party friends to distract us. No drama. Just two friends enjoying a quiet evening alone together.

Now I just have to decide if I really wanna take the next step and call her bluff......