"So I told her last week that I'm trying to quit smoking and that going to the cafe, for me, would be too much of a temptation to start smoking again, so I'm gonna avoid the place. But, hey, if you really wanna see me why don't we get together for dinner or something? There's some good movies coming out soon, too. Maybe we can work out some time to spend together?

She took it hook, line and sinker.

I've deprived her of the chance to USE me and now she's starting to realize what she's missing.

This week we'll be going out to dinner and a movie. No cafe. No third-party friends to distract us. No drama. Just two friends enjoying a quiet evening alone together."

Nice. That's the way to play that one - become "unavailable".
DO the dinner thing, talk over the meal, keep it light and funny. If she cozies up and tries the "friends" thing, end the evening gracefully. The movie thing is a tough one since there is no interaction going on - it's passive. I avoid movies as first to third dates for this reason. Coffee afterwards to discuss said movie however...

Hmm. Well good luck with this one. Sounds a LOT more promising than the first one.

-Crash out

Hey Shadow ...

Rent a movie and watch it at home worked out 100% more often then going to the big pictures ... kind of, teritorial advantage thing.
She likes coffee? How about café latte with Amaretto?

btw. I met my g/f at the video store she was helping out, while doing her PhD ... and we have been friends (in terms of, going together to sneak previews and other movie related stuff) for quite some time before things turned out.

about that Jaguar-vs-FIAT thing:
It is sad how many girls are attracted to money ... the Moment I notice, or only get the impression, something like that is going on ... I make a mental note beside her face: "NOT seriously considerable as a girl firend or just firend ... categorized as toy to be used." - hey, you still can have fun with her - thats the way she want's it.
btw. I met my gf before I bought the sportscar, while I was living in a small flat and had and old rusty Opel (Vauxhall).
And today she earns more money then I do, so what?

@ Crash
I called while driving from work to school, or during breaks ... if I would have had a hour, I would have used it. And I only called the ... hmmm ... more interesting ones. Same thing happend with the ones that I stoped calling.
During the evening-school-time my sex life lived from one night stands ... in other words, it was virtually non existing.

Have I mentioned lately how you can smell bitterness a mile away? It's not a pretty smell.

There's one female opinion.

Women?

Shoot 'em all and mulch them, and then feed them to their own corgis.

Lithos flips through his clipboard

Oh. Wait. That's British Royals not women.

Carry on.

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i wish we (males) would at least once get a useful female opinion about this "nice-guy-syndrome"!

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easy, they simply have no intention of staying with you. women who say they like you as a friend mean that you're nice enough to hang around with, but not what they'd like to date seriously. but most people don't want to hear it, so it becomes a "nice guy syndrome". the problem isn't who you are, the problem isn't the girl, the problem is your choice of girl. that is the complete truth.

I wonder if there's a female equivalent to Nice Guy Syndrome? I don't recall ever feeling like I was a poor second place to girlfriend.

Just hazarding a guess, if we're talking about archetypical memes here: The Bridesmaid?

Oh yeah! The less-attractive friend of the attractive girl! I've been that.

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Originally posted by jasimar:
easy, they simply have no intention of staying with you. women who say they like you as a friend mean that you're nice enough to hang around with, but not what they'd like to date seriously. but most people don't want to hear it, so it becomes a "nice guy syndrome". the problem isn't who you are, the problem isn't the girl, the problem is your choice of girl. that is the complete truth.

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Hmmm, ... might be ture in some cases. (When you call her, and she never calls back - I used that as a clear indicator.)

But there are two flaw's:

1.) If she just isn't interested in you, why is she calling you? (Mostly when she wants to talk or don't want to go to a place alone.)

2.) (Now thats theoratically) - but I belive you could get her, if you woulnd't want her so badly. If you never care, never be the nice guy, she will see you with different eyes.


Which leads us to the:
"you-have-a-girlfriend" or "guppy-syndrom"

Every guy on the planet can tell you that this is true ... when you are in a relationship, you suddenly could get all the girls you want.

Example: At a party I once tryed my luck with S, things turned out well, but, how shall I say it, I didn't reached the goal. The day after I started my affair with E (who I met a week before), I went to another party where S was, E couldn't come with me, but I already said that I will go to the party, so I went alone. Maybe 2 hours after S joined, I found my self lucky.
Another example? I was on a buisness trip in an city where an old friend lived (wanted her badly for years, somehow never turned out), thought it would be a good idea to see her again and took her out for dinner and went for a coffee later on. Where she asked me, if I wouldn't like to come over to her place over night, instead of going back to the hotel room - that time, I refused btw.

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newro: 1.) if she just isn't interested in you, why is she calling you? (mostly when she wants to talk or don't want to go to a place alone.)

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me: women who say they like you as a friend mean that you're nice enough to hang around with, but not what they'd like to date seriously

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newro: 2. )but I belive you could get her, if you woulnd't want her so badly. If you never care, never be the nice guy, she will see you with different eyes

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most men like the theory that if you're a complete asshole to a woman, she will fall for you. it's a myth that's made to satisfy not only a bitter sense of vengence for being rejected but also oversimplifies the issue. at best, you will have confused her, shrouded yourself in a bit of mystery and might get a bit more attention... but all in all, you're still not what she wants.

simple fast rule, don't date these girls. if you're having such a horrible time finding the right girl, change your search parameters. don't go for the same girl that would reject you. the variety of women is limitless. try something new.

@ jasimar

A friend of mine, and I ... reciecled this 'let us be friends' - girls in an interesting way. (A mothode we randomly discovered.)

My friend (lets call him M) was visiting me, he allways have been busy trying to found his company, like I was with the evening school, so we celebrated this event, making a little (not to big) party ... or going out and ending up at myplace, both will work fine. Before I invited a few ... let-us-be-friends-girls to join us ... and told them what kind of guy he is ... that he runs his own buisness ($$$), and that they should be careful and watch out, becasue he is treads girls like ... (hmm, that guy from crule intentions). I usually did that when he came over, he did the same thing the other way around ... I'm not sure, but as far as I remember, this worked every single time.

- Yep, from time to time I enjoed it beeing young and stupd ... as mentioned before, things like that worked good with 17 - 20 year old girls. Gosh, today I would feel guilty if I still do things like that *shrugs*

"simple fast rule, don't date these girls. if you're having such a horrible time finding the right girl, change your search parameters. don't go for the same girl that would reject you. the variety of women is limitless. try something new."

Yeah. Lower your standards. That's great advice.

I think every one has the right to be with someone who is beautiful, intelligent, giving, flexible, and has a good attitude.

So you mean to tell me, and be honest, that you have never dated/gone out with someone who you KNEW was no good for you? You would be the first one I have ever met (aside from that nun but that's a 3 beer story).

Well. Gotta run. Dinner date - sushi, sake, and who know what else.

Later.

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me: at best, you will have confused her, shrouded yourself in a bit of mystery and might get a bit more attention... but all in all, you're still not what she wants.

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and again, sounds like the wrong kind of woman.

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Originally posted by Crash:
"simple fast rule, don't date these girls. if you're having such a horrible time finding the right girl, change your search parameters. don't go for the same girl that would reject you. the variety of women is limitless. try something new."

Yeah. Lower your standards. That's great advice.

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I think what jasimar means is that you have to change your search parameters to exclude the shallow, mean, game-players.

Also, not everyone is **entitled** to a beautiful, brilliant, kind partner. Jeepers.

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change your search parameters to exclude the shallow, mean, game-players.

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yes. that and demonstrate some patience.

bitter, pauline? i didn't say lower your standards. i said change the type of girl you're looking for... but cute way to warp a phrase. looks like you have something of your own to deal with.

brilliant beautiful people, again, come in any variety. it's a distinct possibility that some men (or women) chose a personality that isn't completely attracted to them. wanting the unattainable. try a different kind of girl, perhaps more beautiful, more brilliant, or just a different temprement. if something isn't working, it's obvious, you should try something new.

and i honestly don't recall anything in my text that includes chosing a shallow, mean, game player. i'm of the mind to leave games out entirely.

bitchy, jasimar?

just put off at being completely misconstrued into such an obviously ridiculous conclusion. and ckc: perhaps just a little.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: jasimar,

Eh? Far from bitter. No, I just want these poor guys to meet a nice girl.

It's just that the stereotype of beautiful and brilliant = mean doesn't hold. You just have to find the brilliant, beautiful, *nice* ones!

Wires uncrossed yet?