this topic branches out of a discussion that occurred during one of my science fiction classes.

given the current trend toward conservatism in the US at the moment, the re-election of G.W. and his views of stem cell research, it seems quite likely that human cloning/engineering technology would be something that would be deemed by the US as immoral and outlawed. now, if countries such as china, which have no real interest in US morality, were to persue this line of technology and started to develop human cloning technology and began to actual put this to use, be it for military purposes, or made it available to their public at large, it seems prudent that the US would attempt to do something to "correct" this.
do you think that something like this could bring about a war between super powers? or on a different wavelength, what kind of effect would this have on the religions of the world? if people were able to genetically engineer superior offspring, more disease resistant, more intelligent, more attractive, etc., where would this leave the followers of religions that forbade their adherents to use technology?

just some food for thought. it's something that i've found quite interesting to think about in the weeks since it was originally brought up.

"The bartender's smile widened. His ugliness was the stuff of legend. In an age of affordable beauty, there was something heraldic about his lack of it." - WG describing Ratz in _Neuromancer_

Cloning might be used as an excuse for war but the underlying reasons will be more egocentric than cloning: land and resources or a feint to gain a staging ground to secure them.

Umbilical cord blood stem cell reseach will pass through its current wall to give the vat grown organs for life extension without the use of embryonic stem cells or the creation of a doner clone.

Yes, if we can avoid the Spares scenario that would definitely be a Good Thing...

I could definitely see a 'smite the infidels' stylee invasion of China by a righteous US if China started cloning on a large scale, though.

naw, we'll just let those heathens work out the technics and bribe the right officials to smuggle out the data in boxes of plastic doodads... then the media will be instructed to announce government breakthroughs in organ cloning research carried out without the need to harm little growing stem cells, thus giving us all the perks and pleasing the moral minority. why do you think we let them play with our spy plane?

i don't think china would be too interested in cloning. they seem to realize there's too many people in the world as it is.

you would definitely know the gender of your baby if it was a clone of you...

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Originally posted by kawayama:
i don't think china would be too interested in cloning. they seem to realize there's too many people in the world as it is.

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No kidding. That'd be kind of like Russia inventing a faster, better artificial snow machine.

i find it quite the opposite
what better way to carry on your family's line than making exact clones of you, and tweaking them through genetic engineering to make them smarter, need less sleep, or a million other things you might be able to isolate during the creation process.

i mean, if you're only going to have one or two children, and you need a license to get them, why leave anything to chance?

Fuck that.

In the words of Calvin, "What if I have a kid that turns out just like me?"

Nope, there is one, and only one, correct and righteous purpose for genetic engineering: breeding me a six-inch long great white shark I can keep in a pond.

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Originally posted by lithos:
In the words of Calvin, "What if I have a kid that turns out just like me?"

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I guess that's Calvin with the stuffed tiger, not Calvin the reformist.

On one of the other boards I use there was an attempt at a debate on stem cell research, but since the board bans political and religious discussion, it didn't get very far.

If the US continues to ban extended stem cell research, will it then ban the products of stem cell research carried out in other countries?

If, as a parent you are against stem cell research, would you accept a treatment for your sick child that was the product of stem cell research from another country?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Kradlum,

Did you see the Swiss just voted overwhelmingly to fund stem cell research. I though that the Swiss were largely Catholic, you'd think they would be against it. Of course think about having a few million additional Swiss people running around. The market would be saturated with expensive chocolate, stuck up bank tellers, and those clocks where two little guys come out and hit each other with hammers every hour.

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Originally posted by Kradlum:
If, as a parent you are against stem cell research, would you accept a treatment for your sick child that was the product of stem cell research from another country?

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Remember there have been cases of parents who are Christian Scientists who allowed their children to die because they do not believe in medical care. So yes there probably would be people who would not allow their kids to have procedures derived for stem cells but many others would make an exception.

Also Gov Arnold has pledged to fund stem cell research in California. Were they really sure this guy is Republican?

No party can constrain the Govenator.
What's really at stake with stem cell research? (I do have a strong objection to illegally obtained embryo stem cells and the idea of doner clones or "Spares" as Bravus says.) Is it that the nations/states that master stem cell therapy first will reel in the big ones and their "yearly pilgrimages"? I don't care where the technology emerges or who makes the buck just as long as it happens.
However, I would like a corporate cryogenic storage facility that is closer to home. My son's stem cells are in Florida. I didn't think anything about it at the time and then hurricane after hurricane pounded the state. I thought I had doomed him to the measly potential of an 80 year life span instead of the projected 150 years. But so far everything is ok and since the facility survived this past hurricane season, I guess they'll be ok.
By the way if anyone is expecting a baby soon, I've got some Cryo-Cell gift certificates left.

interesting fact about stem cells

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Patent no. 5 061 620 means that the genetic information in your stem cells, the cells in your bone marrow that produce blood, belong to Systemix, Inc., of Palo Alto, California. The patent should have covered only the way Systemix extracts these cells, a very difficult process, but the PTO, for some inexplicable reason, granted a pantent that "covers the stem cells themselves"

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- Chris Hables Gray Cyborg Citizen, pg 117

in the same chapter, gray recounts the experience of john moore and the supreme court of california's ruling that moore had no property rights to his bodily tissue
http://www.bio.davidson.edu/people/kabernd/Indep/carainbow/Cells.htm

Good point.
Parent responsibilities.
If you allow cells to be banked by a corporate entity make sure the contract clearly states who controls the cells, their release and their uses.
control