The only teaser I'll give away is that the intelligent reader will want her money back after the first 2 chapters.

But if you bought the book then make sure you count the number of times a certain type of coat is mentioned verb like when describing what a character "grabs" "throws" "picks up" "puts on" or "wears." Then go back to other earlier WG books and see if the number of times brands are mentioned is anywhere close to what goes on in Spook Country.

Interesting isn't it?

quote:

But if you bought the book then make sure you count the number of times a certain type of coat is mentioned verb like when describing what a character "grabs" "throws" "picks up" "puts on" or "wears." Then go back to other earlier WG books and see if the number of times brands are mentioned is anywhere close to what goes on in Spook Country.

I think that there are multiple brand mentions in PR. I think the lack of brand mentions in previous books is owed to their taking place in the near and far future. I sort of see your point, but I contend that the frequent mentions of brand make it more real and might even be a comment on our advertising saturated culture. I would say that one or two mentions of a Jos. A. Banks coat would seem like product placement, but the amount that Mr. Gibson uses the names makes them almost like sub-characters to me.

there've always been brands - i mean what the heck's ono sendai or maas neotech? zeiss nikon eyes?

because SC's set now, WG hasn't had to invent or extrapolate to give us that kind of traction is all.

I agree with you, Misty.

If there weren't real brands, real places, and real news events mentioned in the book, we wouldn't get cool stuff like this:

http://node.tumblr.com/

This book is a venture into a new kind of multi-media where the fiction can be "googled" by the reader who learns about the real world existence of these things. It adds to the odd "real but not real" vibe that the book has and is making about our own current state of existence.

quote:

Originally posted by petebertine:
The only teaser I'll give away is that the intelligent reader will want her money back after the first 2 chapters.

But if you bought the book then make sure you count the number of times a certain type of coat is mentioned verb like when describing what a character "grabs" "throws" "picks up" "puts on" or "wears." Then go back to other earlier WG books and see if the number of times brands are mentioned is anywhere close to what goes on in Spook Country.

Interesting isn't it?

If you don't think what a person buys can say something about them, then you shop at Walmart too much. How about a nice simple "sorry you didn't like the book, but don't let the door hit you on the way out"? Ad hominem insults at people who obviously will disagree with you about the book are never a nice way to say hello.

Martin,

I couldn't agree more at all! What ever happened to people actually forming their own opinion instead of sticking to whatever biased review they read? The motivation is a also a bit unclear to me? Not buying a book because too many brands are mentioned? (on a positive note: if I would actually apply this to my tv watching behaviour, this would leave me with massive amounts of spare time Yes, I still have to go out and buy the book (not sure if it's available in The Netherlands yet) but I still would like to find out on my own anyway if I either dislike or like it.

GJ.

Nothing wrong with forming your own opinion. In fact that's encouraged. But reading a book, deciding you don't like it, and then deciding that everyone who does like the book must be stupid? That's a wee bit ego-centric.

quote:

Originally posted by petebertine:
the intelligent reader will want her money back after the first 2 chapters.

I'm just a stupid boy, so too late. I bought it and read it. Oh, the guilt.

quote:

Originally posted by ednothing:

quote:

Originally posted by petebertine:
the intelligent reader will want her money back after the first 2 chapters.

I'm just a stupid boy, so too late. I bought it and read it. Oh, the guilt.

I bought two! Damn!

I'm sure Brian Aldiss had a go at WG for brand-name dropping decades ago (Trillion Year Spree possibly).

quote:

Originally posted by martin:
Nothing wrong with forming your own opinion. In fact that's encouraged. But reading a book, deciding you don't like it, and then deciding that everyone who does like the book must be stupid? That's a wee bit ego-centric.

Being slightly crazy and most ego-centric, I have to agree, Martin.

On the subject of teh brands, I did think earrly on that there may be some sponsorship involved, but quickly dismissed the notion, realising the extension of the PR theme, which I applaud - brands speak volumes about a character e.g I wear Quicksilver and drive a VW combi. I'm a surfer cliche, but I do surf and smile big stylee as I cruise along.

quote:

Originally posted by Archie:
I think the lack of brand mentions in previous books is owed to their taking place in the near and far future.

Misty already points out "Ono-Sendai" and "Zeiss-Nikon"-- being an interesting blend of two existing brands. I still get a kick out of the idea that Braun makes security drones, high-end, probably deadly and attractive, only the must-have accessory for reclusive families who own their own space-station and clone themselves. They're probably iPod-pearlescent, too!

I'd also like to point out that Gibson's tendency to "brand" things is one of the oldest criticisms of his style.

And I'll say it again:

Come on guys, this is obviously a clever ploy by our host to see how rabidly his dedicated fans will defend his artistic integrity.

Don't you see it? His name, "peterbertine", is an obvious play on "libertine", which the Gibson certainly was in his younger, Hippie days. It's gotta be him! There can be no other explanation.

quote:

But if you bought the book then make sure you count the number of times a certain type of coat is mentioned verb like when describing what a character "grabs" "throws" "picks up" "puts on" or "wears."

and about this bit.

the brand - so it's a real one? i didn't know whether it was or not, not sure whether it's available in my country. as far as i was concerned the brand could have been entirely invented, much like pocari sweat (in idoru). one thing i can say for certain is that it never occurred to me to buy one of the jackets.

so this particular example of WG mentioning brand. if you really did stop after two chapters, you may not have picked this up. the character who owns the jacket is down and out. the jacket contains apparently all his worldly posessions. the jacket has a name, a formal name because it's the closest thing this guy has to a home. where did he get it? does it mean he was much better off not long before? does it mean he's good at keeping things? did he steal it? the jacket is important (in getting a lock on the character), and its having a name makes that easier to spot from the outset. and because part of the fun of reading WG is puzzling out the characters, i found this extra layer satisfying.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: misty,

quote:

Originally posted by misty:
as far as i was concerned the brand could have been entirely invented, much like pocari sweat (in idoru)...

Uh, misty:

(yep! but at the time i read idoru i had no idea)

Isn't the Amazonian pocari an endangered species? Outrageous!

As for petebertine starting several new threads to carry on about the same non-issue...

WG likes to have realistic detail in his work, from what I can tell. He mentioned in an interview (or was it the signing I went to? Anyway...) that sentences like "He looked out the porthole and saw the silver boots of the guard" don't work for him, because, "silver?" Chrome? Spray paint? It doesn't have the right kind of detail.

Throughout the book you will notice seemingly unimportant details picked out. I was particularly struck by the description of a shoe that someone was looking at, while attempting to look inconspicuous and failing. The shoe description was borderline obsessive (although I can't remember if a brand name was mentioned). I find this method works well to make the book seem more real, somehow.

Brand names are a useful shortcut for describing something (although, for someone like me, it can take some work to actually figure out what the brand name implies as far as appearance goes). Even in books set in the future, with fake brands, they can still bring useful associations. (The Braun micro-drone, for example, automatically brings a certain image to mind, for me.)

So, I doubt it's product placement. It's just his way of describing things. It could have just as easily been a different brand, although that would have said different things about the character and their situation. Perhaps you're also going to complain about describing some character as having a rock-star nose being a paid advertisement for a certain large-nosed rock star?

I do think that if you only read the first two chapters you might be disappointed (I was), but it does get considerably better, in my opinion.

Love your posts, Colin.