I'm still waiting for my Daihatsu Graceland, dammit!

Quote from WG:

quote:

"I've always liked hyper-specificity in fiction. It's very difficult for me to stick with fiction that is satisfied with general terms. If characters simply 'take off their shoes' and you never find what kinds of shoes they took off, that doesn't work for me."

I didn't even know what an iPod was or what it did until the London signing on the Idoru tour. Sure I'd heard of them and I knew Apple made them, but I imagined some kind of weird PDA type thing. I was far more familiar with ZX81's and Curtas. I don't see any complaints about those brands being used.

WG is very concerned in giving his readers a "referenced environment" where his romances/tales develop. The "referenced environment" also helps the reader to locate characters (not only at the level of physic aspect but also in the psycho aspect).

Unlike many other fiction writers, WG is very precise in describing environments. Sometimes he leaves some characters as avatars (no personality) as in Monalisa Override (IMO) but even working with empty characters, the action is not disrupted (you just don't want to throw the book away, on the contrary, you are compelled to read it to the end).

He is also very able to de-reference the use of labels and trademarks. For instance, I just read Idoru + All Tomorrow Parties and, yeah, he mentions fashionable trademarks but it is not aggressive, it is not merchandising (at least for the intelligent reader). The same happened in PR. This ability in using trademarks without "time-stamping" the book is very characteristic of a great artist.

Obviously, there will always be people who will identify themselves with one or other character of his preferred romance. I remember my times of College (engineering) when one of the very few girls in the class changed her behavior accordingly to what soap opera was featuring on TV at a given time. I am not surprised that japs manufacture jackets and pants accordingly to what is presented in a bestseller: it is part of their culture.

Finally, I agree with Colin. BTW I purchased the hardcover and am still waiting it arrives (4 weeks to get the brit edition at Livraria Cultura). I guess I'll read more than the first two chapters

quote:

I am not surprised that jap[anese] manufacture jackets and pants accordingly to what is presented in a bestseller: it is part of their culture.

Actually, there's an interesting story behind the black Buzz Rickson's MA-1. (The story has been told many times, so forgive me if you've heard it before.) The MA-1 existed before WG wrote Pattern Recognition, and he heard of the obsessive jacket otaku who manufacture it from a friend. This obsessiveness is the essentially Japanese element of the story, I think. WG took his surface impression of the jacket, as he does, and put a black one on his protagonist. After the book was published, Buzz Ricksons began to get inquiries about the black MA-1, but they didn't make a black one. However, they thought it would be kind of cool (and probably would pay) to do so, so now the jacket exists. That part, I think, isn't so Japanese as just ordinarily human, or at least capitalist. It turned out as a sort of retroactive product placement, but I believe all WG got out of it was a nice jacket for himself.

P.S. Try to avoid saying "jap". It has derogatory connotations in English and can be offensive (as I've found out myself). Better to say "Japanese."

Oops... sorry if someone got offended by the contraction in Japanese. What happens is that my cultural background is strong against any kind of prejudice and discrimination and here in Brazil it is really very common to call "japa", "china" or "negão" and it doesn't bring any kind of offense.

BTW, I also enjoy the way WG encompasses afro-american religions in some of his works.

Huh, that's funny. In the commentary for the movie, Office Space, they talked about a very similar thing. The movie features a red Swingline stapler. The movie makers wanted the stapler to stand out so they had their prop department paint it red. After the movie gained momentum as a cult hit, Swingline received several calls about their red staplers, but they'd never manufactured them in red. Finally they got so many calls that they began manufacturing red ones to fill the demand.

This happens to be an example of supposed "product placement" in a movie that wasn't really product placement in the negative sense. Swingline didn't pay the movie studio a dime to "feature" this red stapler, and yet it's inclusion in the film created demand for a product that didn't even exist. So really, you can hardly blame brands and publishing companies, film companies, game companies, etc. from getting in bed with each other because it's really our fault as consumers for giving them the idea.

quote:

Originally posted by misty:
there've always been brands - i mean what the heck's ono sendai or maas neotech? zeiss nikon eyes?

because SC's set now, WG hasn't had to invent or extrapolate to give us that kind of traction is all.

Not to mention he uses real brands in the novels that were set in the future. Sony, Honda, Marlboro, Braun, Kirin, et. al.

quote:

Originally posted by martin:
If you don't think what a person buys can say something about them, then you shop at Walmart too much.

"You are not your fucking khakis!"

Also, the whole product ubiquity is part of the commentary that the book makes, the WG always makes, how advertising is really the only thing that goes on anymore.

quote:

Originally posted by UberDog:

quote:

Originally posted by martin:
If you don't think what a person buys can say something about them, then you shop at Walmart too much.

"You are not your fucking khakis!"

Agreed. But for many people it helps describe what they think they are.

Spook Country is (to me) WGs most alive novel so far. Seemed to me like he was enjoying himself writing this one. I think there's a lot of real stuff in it for no other reason than he didn't allow himself to worry about having too much or too little of anything. He just wrote his ass off. He was careful to get the tech right, but I don't see him worrying a lot about anything else.

PR seemed to me to be fought for. Felt like he was battling a lot of stuff (not in his own life or thoughts... with the story) when he wrote it. Probably why I didn't enjoy it.

Spook is alive. It's a kick in the ass to read and I hope WG worries over every novel from here on out as little as he did with this one.

Product placement? Who gives a fuck?

I'm very glad William Gibson didn't.

quote:

Originally posted by colin:

quote:

I am not surprised that jap[anese] manufacture jackets and pants accordingly to what is presented in a bestseller: it is part of their culture.

Actually, there's an interesting story behind the black Buzz Rickson's MA-1. (The story has been told many times, so forgive me if you've heard it before.) The MA-1 existed before WG wrote Pattern Recognition, and he heard of the obsessive jacket otaku who manufacture it from a friend. This obsessiveness is the essentially Japanese element of the story, I think. WG took his surface impression of the jacket, as he does, and put a black one on his protagonist. After the book was published, Buzz Ricksons began to get inquiries about the black MA-1, but they didn't make a black one. However, they thought it would be kind of cool (and probably would pay) to do so, so now the jacket exists. That part, I think, isn't so Japanese as just ordinarily human, or at least capitalist. It turned out as a sort of retroactive product placement, but I believe all WG got out of it was a nice jacket for himself.

The ultimate irony about the jacket for me is that Cayce wears the Buzz because of her 'label phobia' and the black Buzz range come with great big William Gibson labels! Marvellous

Cayce is not phobic of *all* labels, just the derivative-of-a-derivative-caricature style associated with some *brands*.

Yes, I get that mate- but my understanding of her liking the Rickson was it's entirely generic nature- putting the William Gibson label in it just stikes me as funny. I could just be me...

This all makes for a pretty interesting chicken-egg discussion. Do people go and buy specific brands to establish whatever image they stand for or does it go the other way around? People identifying themselves with characters in a novel are tempted to go and buy the same things as these characters?

quote:

Originally posted by GJ:
This all makes for a pretty interesting chicken-egg discussion. Do people go and buy specific brands to establish whatever image they stand for or does it go the other way around? People identifying themselves with characters in a novel are tempted to go and buy the same things as these characters?

depends on the person i expect. i buy a lot of stuff based on form/fit/function, and i will tend to avoid brand/cost for the sake of it. and i've pretty much always been that way. but certainly, i can remember being in uni, and everyone wearing "docs" because thats what everyone wore, while i just didn't like them so never did.

.... mmmm. Sad to report I'm wearing my Indiana Jones replica jacket today

I'm also dressed as Indy today - khaki chinos, brown shoes (not boots today), white shirt, brown leather jacket, army surplus bag (although not the authentic Indy MKVII bag as I still haven't found a good strap for it). Not wearing the Disney Indy hat tho, or the Sam Brown as it is too big for the belt loops.

LOL! Only the jacket today. My MkVII (with strap from Todds Costumes), Herbert Johnson/Adventurbilt hybrid fedora, Aldens Indy boots and the rest of my gear is at home!