quote:

Originally posted by UberDog:

quote:

His agents, both Cayce and Hollis, keep secrets from him and he does not mind, just as long as he gets what he wants, and they do not actively deceive him.

But Mainwaring and Dorotea actively deceived him and yet he is OK with that so long as it plays into his larger picture. The thing with Hubertus is, he's amoral. He doesn't care about morality or trust, he cares about the scent he picks up, the trail he's after, the nascently defined "next big thing" after which he puts all his resources.

What I think you are missing is the essential nature of Bigend's character.

This is what I was meaning as well I suppose.
I honestly can't imagine Bigend being bothered by, and certainly not offended by, lying.

I can see him very disappointed not to be getting the results he PAID for tho.

I think in fact that in some ways lying might be a plus for him. Since it might mean they care and that seems to be what he's really after *motivated* employees, ones who are in it for something besides money. People that really believe in the cause, whatever the cause is, even if it's not his cause, just so long as they do what he wants them to.

Don't forget about Bigend orchestrating Cayce's getaway from Dorotea's goons using Boone and the gomi boys. To me it seemed like Boone was trying to spill the beans that Bigend was having Cayce followed by himself and Dorotea and Bigend cut him off
"You think I had Cayce followed, Boone?" (I'm surprised he didn't call him Mr. Chu at that point.)
"I might myself, Hubertus, if I were in your position."
"You might well," says Bigend, "but you aren't me. I don't work that way, not in a partnership..." (p. 176)
Bigend goes on to further obscure the multiple followings by saying that a partnership with him makes people more likely to be followed and the kicker:
"...This is an aspect of the downside of a high profile..."
There is no way that Bigend could have gotten close to the twins (bigger spider uncle) without guiding Cayce to them without seeming to or the whole dynamic would have raveled.

I am surprised by people equating trust with morality, when they are different fish altogether. One is an universal value system, the other is how we see a particular individual. And anyway I do not see as Bigend as amoral, just terribly selfish. Which still has nothing to do with trust.

It probably boils down to how I see the Hubertus-Boone interaction, which is stressed several times as a partnership, and reinforced by all that first name use.

In my experience, competence is important, but the most important factor in a lasting partnership is trust in your partner, whether it is a personal or a business partnership. And that is where Boone is different from hirelings like Dorotea or employees like Pamela. Cayce has a similar status, one that she still keeps by the end of PR. Hubertus seems to have a well defined idea of what "partnership" means to him (see Viking p. 118) which includes not following or mistrusting his "partners". Just as if they are the only ones he considers his equals.

I suspect the quibbles are semantic, but just consider this hypothetic case. If Boone had said , just when Cayce traveled to Moscow, "Hubertus, I am getting nowhere with Sigil, but I have a tap on Ms. Pollard's laptop and she has received an e-mail from the creator. That is why she is travelling to Moscow. Let's go there too." Instead of "I got a lead from Sigil, a Russian domain address. I wonder if that is why Ms. Pollard is travelling to Russia. What is she hiding from you? Meanwhile I will keep digging here." (or some variant of the above).

Would Boone still be in the meeting at the end, rather than sent packing? I think he would.

I do not see him as incompetent, at all, at least as presented in the book. So his competence itself is not in question, but how he shares results and recognized mistakes.

Hubertus does not come across to me as a result driven man (and he confirms that in Spook Country). He is curiosity driven. So keeping a secret from him will just pique his curiosity. Lying however is an insult to his ability.

Unless someone presents a new argument, I suppose we can only agree to disagree.

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"I think it's all actually about money, for him." He grimaces. "Ultimately I find that that was the whole problem, with most of the dot−com people."

I think this is the most telling bit. Boone is not what he pretended to be. And he is not reliable. Because if money is what motivates you, then you can always be bought off by anyone who offers you enough. The people who interest Bigend* are the obsessed ones who do what they do because they have to, not because they think it will make them rich.



*and The Maker himself, obviously

Still think Boone got paid his full contract for doing exactly what bigend wanted him to do whether Boone knew what he was doing or not.

Bigend was done with him that was all.

But Boone had no contract, so he probably was paid the same as Cayce: unlimited expense account, no salary. Cayce got that nice gift from Volkov, but nothing from Bigend that did not come from the expense account (including the second Rickson).

NO CONTRACT! Unfathem..unfathem.unfathemem...unfathemmmemmemum?...unfah.?un..fah...them....?....unfar..them..able?

quote:

Originally posted by The Psychophant:


I suspect the quibbles are semantic, but just consider this hypothetic case. If Boone had said , just when Cayce traveled to Moscow, "Hubertus, I am getting nowhere with Sigil, but I have a tap on Ms. Pollard's laptop and she has received an e-mail from the creator. That is why she is travelling to Moscow. Let's go there too." Instead of "I got a lead from Sigil, a Russian domain address. I wonder if that is why Ms. Pollard is travelling to Russia. What is she hiding from you? Meanwhile I will keep digging here." (or some variant of the above).

Would Boone still be in the meeting at the end, rather than sent packing? I think he would.

No, because he never would have been hired because Bigend could get any schmuck to tap Cayce's phone. her hired Boone for a unique talent which he actually did not possess.

I think you were more on the trail when you mentioned being equal. Boone, by being routing and predictable (like the dot commers) becomes something uninteresting for Bigend, he does far worse than breach trust: he bores him.

That, in the end, is what Bigen is all about. Rather like a hyper acute child with a penchant for memetics, in that fashion.