William Gibson Books www.williamgibsonboard.com www.williamgibsonboard.com Spook Country *SPOILERS OK* Bigend's motivation
www.williamgibsonboard.com www.williamgibsonboard.com Spook Country *SPOILERS OK* Bigend's motivation Topic Closed|
Go
|
New
|
Find
|
Notify
|
Tools
|
Member  |
Yes, the flaming usually starts at this point as well. Perhaps there is a good sociological internet study to be done. --- Reading, meanwhile, is an activity subsequent to writing - more resigned, more civil, more intellectual. |
|||
|
|
Member |
Oh, I see. Yah, no, I was just wanting you to get on with it. I'm sorry that was not more clear, and I can understand, based on your admitted biases arising from prior WGB experience, why you'd think that. And hopefully you can understand why, as the new person here, I had no idea you'd take it that way. As I was trying to say in my posts earlier: I agree with your point in the larger respect. That Bigend is interested in the origin of origins, not the path things follow from the origin. The reason I argue the semantics is because you seemed fixed on demonstrating that "everything is marketing" and I don't see what that has to do with anything else you seem to be getting at. Or. When you say, "I think it's a cheap was out of a more interesting debate", for example, what I want to hear from you is what this more interesting debate is. I understand (what I think) you are getting at with "everything is marketing", I think "everything is marketing" is a hilariously broad and ridiculous thing to say, so I'm happy to give you a hard time about it, BUT, the point I'm trying to make here, is, what happens after that? What is the more interesting debate, you see? Everything is marketing? Ok, I understand what you mean and find the phrasing silly, BUT, where is the debate? Like I said before (I think): I agree with you, now what? |
|||
|
|
Member |
Quiet you stupid git!  |
|||
|
|
Member |
This was good. Thanks for restating the question. I does make me think. Bigend is clearly the refinement of his Gibsonian archetype from prior iterations. We know what he's motivated for, what his interest is, but we have no idea WHY he is motivated for that thing, do we? I mean he shows a lot of dedication and a very high-level of operational excellence for these tiny small things. And I'm sure that largely the knowing, the drive to know, is what drives him. You see? He's clearly very driven, at a seemingly rather personal level (given the comprehensive, almost OCD, levels he goes to) but why is HE driven that way? Mommy not love him? Always picked on in school? Laney had the 5-SB, as did Harwood, Virek was after eternal life via the Great Upload In The Sky, Harwood wanted, very explicitly, to retain his power after The Singularity. He wanted to control the outcome\aftermath. Pretty generic, but understandable (the interesting part being the idea of nodal points, and the texture of Harwood, his interest in having\maintaining power is pretty generic). Virek wants to escape from his hideous flesh, again, pretty understandable. More over, in the Sprawl world (pre-nodal points) what would really be left for him to do besides becoming even more post-human? So again, pretty understandable. But what about Bigend? Where does his desire and motivation for that forbidden knowledge come from? I can't remember anything about his past\personal life in the books, I could just be not remembering it, but he seems very soulless in that way. He has actions, motivations, but nothing behind the mask. |
|||
|
|
Member |
I think he debate is: if "marketing is the substance then the products are merely after-effects. Or, to go back to memetics, ideas are the cause while events are the effects. Which is to say that World War II is, in part, the side-effect of fascism. It is a way in which we put traditional causality on it's head, hysteron proteron style. Because, if we are actually serving an idea and not the end to which an endeavor is guided, then what does that mean? If I buy something more because I like am infected with the meme, then might I not (or we not) go to war and form countries because of the same thing? In this way all of history changes from a cause-effect relationship that we take to be true into something much less obvious and (possibly) more interesting and dangerous. --- Reading, meanwhile, is an activity subsequent to writing - more resigned, more civil, more intellectual. |
|||
|
|
Member |
When he went to Brazil to "find himself" he found that there was no ":self" and that he must task him self to Being Toward Objects in Space. And so he did. He became the embodiment of ideas, of hyper-cool. We do it every day. I made this up. --- Reading, meanwhile, is an activity subsequent to writing - more resigned, more civil, more intellectual. |
|||
|
|
Member |
I find the use of the terms "marketing" and "substance" in the same sentence offensive. |
|||
|
|
Member |
And yet I believe it to be true.
More and more, the product exists to create a perceived need for the advertising instead of the other way around. We have become obsessed with buzz, with the ancillary quantum field of cool that surrounds a thing, rather than the thing itself. The core, physical thing is not the motivator anymore, I would argue, it is the previously tangential which has become the thing itself. --- Reading, meanwhile, is an activity subsequent to writing - more resigned, more civil, more intellectual. |
|||
|
| Previous Topic | Next Topic | powered by eve community | Page 1 2 3 4 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
|||
| Site | www.williamgibsonboard.com | ||
| Servlet | eve2da019 | ||
| Version | 1.2.22 build 9062 | ||
| Module | Forums 4.0.3 | ||
| Stylesheet | "Default Style" | ||
| Wordlet Set | "Default Wordlet Set" | ||
Topic Closed© Copyright 2005, AuthorsOnTheWeb.com