quote:

Originally posted by Mean Old Man:

quote:

Originally posted by IndividualFrog:


Was Tito not allowed to have a girlfriend because of protocol or something?

Not necessarily a question of permission... Absorption in one's craft will do it. Shit, back when I was actively competing in pistol, I voluntarily gave up coffee.

It's not really difficult for me to imagine a fringe-dwelling character like Tito as semi-deliberately celibate- but the breaking of that celibacy would definitely be quite plausible, and could generate much drama mileage. I just don't see the V.2007 Mr. Gibson mining that vein.

That's an excellent point. The Tito side of things resembled nothing so much as a view of the side that gets it all *right*, or near enough that the other side has no clue that anything went *wrong*. I got a thrill from the near-perfection of it all, punctuated by comedy issuing from episodes like almost being buggered by where a column was (Garreth checking the angles).

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Originally posted by Justy:

...punctuated by comedy issuing from episodes like almost being buggered by where a column was (Garreth checking the angles).

Yeah. I came up short at that, as well. Mr. Gibson was wholly saved, plot-wise, by portraying his protagonist-of-the moment as a civvie BASE-jumper with shooting abilities, as opposed to a professional military man. An old soldier would have found a way (would have demanded!) to be lying in wait, scoping it out hours before- even as it was placed in the pile...not arriving the moment of.

I once had the privilege of serving with a very, very bright and competent military officer. His most scathing indictment for incompetence during leadership evaluations? "No recce."

Anyone who didn't recce their environment was a Dumb Cunt©.

Recce is my fucking credo, now. I never want to hear that said of me.

Isn't it ironic (in a saggy stinking way) that the main reason for failure with most of our beloved CIA's covert ops is no recce? From the foundation up: the CIA decided early on that it's job -- reconnaissance by espionage, was very hard and would take years to yield bragging results, so they went straight for covert ops.

Circular logic like that is when Oroborous doesn't eat its tail but gets swallowed up its asshole.

(Glossary, for our non-militaristic otaku: Recce is pronounced "reckie", and it means "recon". Reconnaissance. A good look at your chair before you sit on it. Thumbtacks and broken legs, wot.)

quote:

Originally posted by Mean Old Man:

Not necessarily a question of permission... Absorption in one's craft will do it. Shit, back when I was actively competing in pistol, I voluntarily gave up coffee.

I guess he didn't seem that absorbed to me. He seemed more annoyed by it (but resigned to it) than anything. He didn't give up his music, or trips to look in the windows at Yohji. I suppose it's possible he's just too busy for a girlfriend.

[/QUOTE]

I guess he didn't seem that absorbed to me. He seemed more annoyed by it (but resigned to it) than anything. He didn't give up his music, or trips to look in the windows at Yohji. I suppose it's possible he's just too busy for a girlfriend.[/QUOTE]

Not to threadjack, but I was interested in what WG thought about Yohji. Wim Wenders did a small film about Yohji (Notebook on Cities and Clothes I think it was called), which was pretty good. Wim also directed what I felt is a very WG film "Until the End of the World", so it was nice to see them get together (Yohji and Wim).

Yohji often comments on the importance of clothing as armor, so I thought it was very appropriate that Tito was attracted to it.

quote:

Originally posted by Psychophant:
One of the things we discussed in London (but I at least did not go so far to mention it to WG) was how little sex, and how elliptic its presentation, there is in SC.

We have Odile possibly (well, very possibly) having sex with Heidi. And once again Odile living with Bigend in his house. Maybe she got to try Bigend's maglev bed. It would probably be the best use for such a bed...

Despite Hollis' obvious attraction to Garreth, that looks like a doomed relationship, and anyway it takes place beyond the bounds of the book.

Ideas, suggestions, lewd comments?

Lots of interesting paths to meander down in these posts. And "elliptic presentation" permeates the writing and not just with regard to sex. My guess about the absence of overt sex scenes in recent books is a pretty obvious one and am a little surprised it has not been posted yet (or more probably, I mssed something): anxiety about writing from a female pov.

The whole Brown/Milgrim relationship stank of s&m overtones... all that tying up and sudden demands : )
Actually, I felt the Odile/Heidi thing somewhat tacked-on.
I just feel there wasn't any really deep connection developed between characters meriting a fully developed sexual encounter... and not even a casual one, due the age/social status differences.

Please do not have sex in Spook Country. You'll make the pages stick together.