William Gibson Books www.williamgibsonboard.com www.williamgibsonboard.com Spook Country *SPOILERS OK* The use of VWs...
www.williamgibsonboard.com www.williamgibsonboard.com Spook Country *SPOILERS OK* The use of VWs...Page 1 2
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Junior Member |
I was told by some folks in the VWNA sales organization that the real reason for the Phaeton was to move the VW brand upscale and up-price so that when the next generation of VWs is in BMW-price territory it won't be as shocking.
No better way to move your brand upscale than to sell a $100k version that looks a lot like the $25k to $40k Passat. |
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Member |
And I totally understand that philosophy, and would totally support it if VW didn't already have Audi competing there. It's possible they wanted wanted to expand their brand offerings in this space (fashion designers do this all the time i.e. design under their own name and also design collections for major fashion houses), but this would be the first time, that I know of, that anyone attempted this with automobiles. |
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Yew guys are tawking bowt *cars*. Ick....
Space must flow past the ports like wine from a pitcher |
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It is interesting that the Phaeton was retired from the North American sales market in 2006, due to poor image and results. Of over 25000 Phaeton sold, half of them have been in Germany and only 10% in North America. Considering that the car was launched in North America in 2004, I doubt it was the intended target.
It is the 70 year old VW chairman favorite project, made in its own plant, sharing the platform with the Bentley Continental. It outsells the whole Bentley brand, though considering prices that is not so astounding. It is an experiment, from the plant built to build it to the requirements made of it (drive 24 hours at 50ºC outside temperature while keeping inside temperature under 22ºC; reach 300 kph speed without any engine noise...). A concept car that sells. It is expected that the Phaeton 2 will be based on the A8 aluminium platform, though there are rumours it will be A6 based. Having just driven 900 km on a 3.0 TDI A6, it is a very nice platform but not what I would call a flagship car. Call me Hassan... |
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Member |
Actually, there is a solid precedent for VW's behaviour.
LEXUS. It has only been 25 years since Toyota decided to grab a portion of the luxury car market, and after all their research and focus grouping introduced the LS 400 and ES 250 in 1989. Prety much every model after them got ranked Most Appealing Premium Luxury Car, Best of, Import car of the year, etc. People forget it's still a relatively new marque because they've become so ubiquitous so quickly. So it's really not at all surprising that VW thought they could do with a chunk of that market too. There is a lot of appeal for Stealth Wealth cars here in Europe for the market that finds Lexi a little too shouty. Phaetons have that interesting ability to almost bend light around them so you don't quite know what you're looking at. Unless you already know what you're looking at. That was what VW got wrong. Not nearly conspicuous enough for basketball players, rappers, hedge fund managers and celebrity hairdressers... |
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...basically your American ruling class. |
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Sentinel, that actually almost proves what I mean. VW did the same type of thing, only they called it Audi. When Toyota went upmarket, they didn't call it Toyota, they created an entirely new brand. VW already had a brand in that space.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: mikethecat, |
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As Hassan said above, this is not about a company driven marketing stunt, this is an old and powerful man using that power to make his personal dream true, that his company makes the best car in the world, according to his own standards. After all, he was behind Audi's move upwards to BMW and Mercedes level, while VW moved to fill the Audi niche, and Seat and Skoda now fill the traditional VW place.
Which is why it had to be VW, or why they built a factory just to manufacture it. Some people even think VW bought Bentley/Rolls Royce to get enough technical know-how about long wheelbase silent cars, while Ferdinand Piëch assembled a dream team to make him the definitive car. The fact that Mr. Piëch's whim paid for itself (more as improvements included in the second generation Audi A4/A6/A8 and the new Passat than the Phaeton itself, though it has not bombed, exceeding expected sales) shows why he became automotive executive of the XXth century. The Bugatti Veyron is his idea of a sports car, with his loved concept of a 16 cylinder engine... This one certainly does not pay for itself. Quite a Gibsonian fellow, I think, even discounting the bizarre politics of the Porsche family or his thirteen children (with four different women). Names. Numbers. Held as though they might be a map, a map back out of the underground. |
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And I agree with that, I think it was just a man pushing his dream. Basically what I'm trying to say is that the Phaeton was never intended to be an actual product, but more of a vanity product for Mr. Piech. It has nothing to do with American culture, or the American market. I guess I was just using the marketing angle to illustrate that it didn't matter whether the car would succeed or fail in the US (and I'm skeptical the reason was because athletes, entertainers, hedggies, and hairdressers didn't find it bling enough). |
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I think you're right that US sales would have been the nice extra that made the project pay, though he could afford it anyway. But what I observe in Los Angeles and San Diego is that luxury car buyers (in California anyway) want pizzazz, spinning rims and Batmobile Tank styling rather than understatement. As for the VW/Audi crossover: in England, anyway, they have done a good job of keeping the two brands completely separate. Looking for a new car two years ago I roadtested a few varieties of Golf, Polo and new Beetle. When I tried an Audi A3 it was so completely superior in build quality and handling there was no contest. I rented a Passat in Minnesota last year - it felt so mushy compared to the directness of the A3s and 4s. |
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Member |
One interesting thing in European/Japanese companies is that they segment all the way up. You see VW -> Audi -> Bugatti (with the 1020HP sports car that morphs itself). But there are exceptions: French manufacturers (Renault, Peugeot, Citroen). If you get an Audi A3, it is the same platform of the VW Golf, but the possible comparisons stop at this point for the A3 is upgraded in every item: performance, safety, comfort... American car companies tend to try to embrace from the meanest to the absolute luxury car... The further they go is to re-brand and put "a Division of X... company". An interesting thing is that no US car company did well in Brazil (Chrysler got out of the country not only once but twice... Ford made a disastrous association with VW and after 10 years of its dissolution still feels the effects...). Who did well were the Italians (Fiat), Germans (VW, Audi, BMW, Mercedes), Japanese (Honda, Toyota) and French (Renault, Peugeot, Citroen). In the luxury segment we've seen the Italians (Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maseratti) and the Germans (Audi, BMW, Mercedes). ---------- Why oh why didn't I take the blue pill ??? |
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Junior Member |
FWIW, Piech is part of the Porsche family and one of his earlier vanity projects was called the Porsche 917, the most successful race car ever.
Don't think he needs to prove anything. |
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