It seems to me that one wouldn't be able to effectively seal the holes in the container with magnets, especially against radiation. The seal wouldn't be anywhere near close enough and the radiation would get out anyway, yeah?

Steel doesn't stop radiation after all, even if the magnets had lead on top.

the magnets were designed to be bigger than the holes so that they covered the hole effectively. the point was to hide the holes, not to contain the radiation.

as for radiation. i'd need to look up what type of radiation one gets from cesium. but it really does depend on what type of radiation it is. paper will stop alpha particles, steel would readily stop beta particles, and its only gamma that you would need chunky bit of lead for (from memory).

Well, steel will stop a certain amount of radiation, but my impression was that the idea was to keep the pulverized cesium from leaking out (the cesium, after all, being the stuff that is radioactive), and keep people from noticing the container had been shot.

Looks like beta decay to gamma emission. So I'm thinking steel will soak up at least the first part of that.

If the radiation didn't get out of the container it wouldn't be very effective to cause them embarrassment at the border. Though it would be a better way to get them to breath that nasty stuff in (where it could actually do some damage).

And, yes, I think the magnets were to obscure the holes so that nobody clued in that something was amiss right off a quick visual inspection.

quote:

Originally posted by remotepush:
the magnets were designed to be bigger than the holes so that they covered the hole effectively. the point was to hide the holes, not to contain the radiation.

as for radiation. i'd need to look up what type of radiation one gets from cesium. but it really does depend on what type of radiation it is. paper will stop alpha particles, steel would readily stop beta particles, and its only gamma that you would need chunky bit of lead for (from memory).

Yes, gamma, but I thought that's why iot was in the lead Pelican case?

And no, the magnets were designed to hide the spalling and seal the radiation. He mentions this twice in the text.

quote:

Originally posted by colin:
Well, steel will stop a certain amount of radiation, but my impression was that the idea was to keep the pulverized cesium from leaking out (the cesium, after all, being the stuff that is radioactive), and keep people from noticing the container had been shot.

It was to cover the holes and stop the sensors from detecting it inside the port.

quote:

Originally posted by jbx:
Looks like beta decay to gamma emission. So I'm thinking steel will soak up at least the first part of that.

If the radiation didn't get out of the container it wouldn't be very effective to cause them embarrassment at the border. Though it would be a better way to get them to breath that nasty stuff in (where it could actually do some damage).

No, because they are going to alert the border to look for the radiation. So, they take a Geiger counter and sweep it either by going along the outside or going in. Either way I'd think they'd find it irradiated.

OK, but it still makes sense, because the sensors would be triggered by radioactive cesium blowing around in quantity (and landing on the sensors), but probably not (or certainly at least not as easily) by radiation itself emitted from the container.

Oh, I had missed that they were going to tip them off. Very good then. Nothing to see here.

quote:

Originally posted by colin:
OK, but it still makes sense, because the sensors would be triggered by radioactive cesium blowing around in quantity (and landing on the sensors), but probably not (or certainly at least not as easily) by radiation itself emitted from the container.

See, my thought is that the sensors he was talking about were random inspection of boxes by Geiger counters. Do ports have radiation detectors just randomly posted?

I doubt it.

While on the subject, how do the bullets get through the steel and then atomize the cesium on contact with the paper?

Can you have an AP round on top of a cesium capsule and still have it work right?

Cesium 137 used in oncology is a fine powder enclosed in a capsule. If spread, most affected objects must be considered radioactive contaminated and, unless they're extremely valuable, must be properly disposed.

Here in Brazil an asshole sent an used hospital equipment with the capsule inside to the equipments cemetery. A trash digger found that, disassembled and took the warm glowing capsule home. There he hammered it open and spread the powder over his skin, his wife skin... so on and so forth... not necessary to mention the results.

It was necessary to unearth a large patch of land and dispose everything as radioactive waste.

More references here

So, WG approach to the nullification of that money is highly valid.

quote:

Originally posted by cb4(r2)3t0:
Cesium 137 used in oncology is a fine powder enclosed in a capsule. If spread, most affected objects must be considered radioactive contaminated and, unless they're extremely valuable, must be properly disposed.

Here in Brazil an asshole sent an used hospital equipment with the capsule inside to the equipments cemetery. A trash digger found that, disassembled and took the warm glowing capsule home. There he hammered it open and spread the powder over his skin, his wife skin... so on and so forth... not necessary to mention the results.

It was necessary to unearth a large patch of land and dispose everything as radioactive waste.

More references here

So, WG approach to the nullification of that money is highly valid.

No, I'm not saying that he's wrong about cesium as such, I'm saying that can an armor piercing bullet have a cesium capsule in it and then puncture steel but impact the powder on the money and not the outside of the box at the moment of impact?

It seems to me the stuff might spread over the air and box as soon as the bullet hit the steel. The capsule has to be breakable, right?

Or not?

Where are the Glockers?

quote:

Originally posted by UberDog:

quote:

Originally posted by colin:
OK, but it still makes sense, because the sensors would be triggered by radioactive cesium blowing around in quantity (and landing on the sensors), but probably not (or certainly at least not as easily) by radiation itself emitted from the container.

See, my thought is that the sensors he was talking about were random inspection of boxes by Geiger counters. Do ports have radiation detectors just randomly posted?

I doubt it.

While on the subject, how do the bullets get through the steel and then atomize the cesium on contact with the paper?

Can you have an AP round on top of a cesium capsule and still have it work right?

There was a story somewhere about a radiological detector on a freeway going off because of a cat which had been to the vet and been given a barium enema or whatever.

I don't know about randomly, but I do know there are radiation sensors out there, and ports would be a fine place to put them.



For the firearms, provided they are using an AP round, which the Silvertips are not, it'll certainly maintain integrity through the steel. How you get it to "open" after that, but, not before that, trickier. Particularly trickier given the narrative constraints. You can't say "I'd use a time delayed DSFS flechette" so that the flechette penetrates, and then the outside disintegrates.

All of that said I think that if you can get the bullet thru the container with the capsule still in it, it'd likely rupture while passing thru, and then Brownian motion should take care of the rest of it.

I don't think you'd have to actually irradiate any of the bills btw. Given what cb4(r2)3t0 just posted, which has always been my favored method of visualizing a dirty nuke, more or less, you just have to get the powder IN the container and loose and it would be effectively impossible to clean it all out and make the bills usable again.

I do think that in some kind of real world simulation of the Gibsoverse that Tito would be looking at some tissue replacements in the Chiba City clinics, if he lasts that long. A bit o' collateral damage.

For sheer gun fun you could assume they are not real bullets, they are special bullets, make 'em out of DU, nice specially formed little hole for the capsule, engineered to rupture from deformation stress, throw a FMJ over the whole thing.

Is it clear from the text how much the shells have been doctored?

No, not to me. But you have given me a great idea for Mythbusters.

OK, help pimp thi thread at Mythbusters: http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=69419...961994479#7961994479

If they ever do this as an episode and SC sales go up, I want my percentage in agent reads, thanks.

Asymmetrical marketing take that!

quote:

Originally posted by UberDog:
No, I'm not saying that he's wrong about cesium as such, I'm saying that can an armor piercing bullet have a cesium capsule in it and then puncture steel but impact the powder on the money and not the outside of the box at the moment of impact?

It seems to me the stuff might spread over the air and box as soon as the bullet hit the steel. The capsule has to be breakable, right?

Or not?

Where are the Glockers?

Oh... I agree with this: probably, on impact (with the described ammunition) most of the powder would contaminate the exterior of the container. And it would not be very wise trying to get near enough to close the holes with magnets...

Not to mention the problem of filling the hollow points with Cesium 137 and keeping radiation inside.

Anyways, the book is a novel (fiction) and I guess it is not required to be scientifically accurate.

On the other side, if you can harvest Cesium 137 in equipment cemeteries around the world, the idea of someone spreading it in public places is frightening.

Yes, I am willing to allow for the fiction, certainly. I was just curious if it were possible.

quote:

Yes, I am willing to allow for the fiction, certainly. I was just curious if it were possible.

Yes, theoretically it is possible to build an explosive armor piercing bullet that "inoculates" most of radioactive stuff inside the container. But everything I see is .50cal or bigger. Like:



and would probably start a fire inside the container... If not just cross it before exploding...


I also discovered this 12-gauge shotgun explosive ammo. But it is accurate up to 200m (only). But it is new...

I want to see Adam and Jamie try it.

I'll pimp that thread when I get time to make an account.

But, in the mean time, I think it'd be a sweet Mythbusters ep, at least partly because they'll have to think of a way to test it without using the cesium.