quote:

Originally posted by ghosthorse:

I was perplexed about this also. Metaphorically, I think he symbolizes the easy yet consciously painful acquiescence of the American public to a belligerent, irrationally abusive government, the "Rize" I believe being a code for "information" used to keep the public in check. He may have also symbolized Gibson's view of his readers, his ...the implication being, if my reading of Milgrim is correct, that property theft can have transformative value, especially if irony is attached (the money in the purse being the repayment of another addict's last wishes.)

Those are good points. Rize as Soma. I hadn't caught on to the irony of the provenance of Milgrim's purloined money. Clever.

quote:

Originally posted by Psychophant:
I like Milgrim. Maybe because I never can be Hollis or Tito, but I could have ended like Milgrim. I still can.

Are you an addict?

I am sure Gib must be amused at all the symbology we readers can mine from his attempt to create an entertainingly plausible world via text fiction.

There is something to be said, though, about Milgrim being partly an artifact of Gibson unconsciously channeling the flaccidity of the left as juxtaposed foil to Brown's overt representation of the corrupted but ideologically self-righteous old school Right (the character traits of Allen Dulles, for example, come to mind).

quote:

He (Milgrim) is necessary to observe Brown.

I wouldn't say necessary, but agree that this turned into one of his more useful roles as Gib wove him along. Milgrim was, I'm willing to bet one million metaphysibucks drenched in imaginary virgin's blood, that Milgrim's chief use for Gibson was as a kind of murky lens through which he could see plot/characters gel into the matrix of the story overall.

Originally, some of us were certainly waiting for Milgrim to reveal some unique perspective or connections or skill that would twist the plot a certain way.

The only thing Milgrim did significant to the plot, that I recall, was pointing out Tito at the end, whereby Brown crashed his car.

Even that didn't stop Brown from getting the container and completing his mission... (for whom? We don't know of Brown will be stopped at customs. Can't say.)

Milgrim was, I think, a useful glass through which Gibson could see the dark as through a wall lightly.

I throughly believe Gib when he says he hasn't a c;lue from beginning to end except for a bit of 'feel' that he wants to project, and a finely honed sense of literary pragmatism welded with 40-ish years of obsessive word-smithing.

I don't see where "necessary" even comes into it. Whatever book it would have been without Milgrim, it wouldn't be Spook Country.

quote:

Originally posted by UberDog:

quote:

Originally posted by Psychophant:
I like Milgrim. Maybe because I never can be Hollis or Tito, but I could have ended like Milgrim. I still can.

Are you an addict?

Not now. Or maybe not yet. Do you think Milgrim was always an addict? Or that he will always be?

Tito will be forever a Ninja, and Hollis will be forever a cult singer. Addict is not a permanent label. That does not make it easy to wipe, just possible.

Compared to getting that Pelican case in the right place, getting the truck stopped at the border, when you are still monitoring its position, is a piece of cake.

I'm still of the opinion Milgram was a waste of words.

As I consider the book (as Gibson himself allowed it could be considered such) deliberately constructed against some excesses of the Bush administration, and Milgrim is there to highlight that side, I would say Milgrim is critical for the author purposes.

While reading the book Milgrim felt necessary, although he was adding tone rather than driving plot - no bad thing. However, when I finished the book (last night) and thought about it, he just felt like a literary device to give us the access to Brown. Without him it would have been a very different book, and the Brown stuff wouldn't have worked so well imo, but he did feel a bit tacked on. You could have trimmed out most of the things he thinks, says or does, but I don't think the book would have been as good.

I think Milgrim's self-induced (drugged) passivity is a very important part of the novel.

He neither fights against or removes himself from Brown's activities, but is content to tag along as an observer.

Our passive observation of governmental misfeasance could be seen as a defining feature of our age, no?

quote:

Originally posted by Psychophant:

quote:

Originally posted by UberDog:

quote:

Originally posted by Psychophant:
I like Milgrim. Maybe because I never can be Hollis or Tito, but I could have ended like Milgrim. I still can.

Are you an addict?

Not now. Or maybe not yet. Do you think Milgrim was always an addict? Or that he will always be?

Tito will be forever a Ninja, and Hollis will be forever a cult singer. Addict is not a permanent label. That does not make it easy to wipe, just possible.

Compared to getting that Pelican case in the right place, getting the truck stopped at the border, when you are still monitoring its position, is a piece of cake.

Once you get addicted though, the possibility lingers. Your post made it sound like you were afraid of said lingering potential.

quote:

Originally posted by IndividualFrog:
I don't see where "necessary" even comes into it. Whatever book it would have been without Milgrim, it wouldn't be Spook Country.

I totally agree. There's so much more to this character. His next move?

quote:

Originally posted by M:
"symbolizes" seems rather grand, but upon reading this, I do feel there might be an allegorical connection between Milgrim and the average American: drugged on tranquilizers and held captive by a vague "security"-ish thing.

Exactly. He is led around by Brown, manipulated, used when convenient like another gadget on his belt; he doesn't question, or opposes much resistance, due his addiction, and his fear. The fear that consequences will be worst that just having to wait for hours on a laundry...

Milgrim reminds me a little of the dog in Jack London's _To Build a Fire_. Subdued by the cold, following and observing someone watching them make mistake after mistake just hoping to get beside a fire. Then when the dog realizes the man can't provide any more warmth, the dog walks away to where he knows there is more warmth.