quote:

Originally posted by gil:
Is it me, or have the reaction and comment on Spook Country been much less intense than they were on Pattern Recognition?

Does a bear shit in the woods?

I shit in the woods once. Does that make me a bear?

quote:

Originally posted by Gustave:
I shit in the woods once. Does that make me a bear?

Yes.

quote:

Originally posted by UberDog:
PR is all about metaphysics. I keep saying this. It's The Crying of Lot 49 which was about the potential for genuine meaning in the world.

The creator of the footage is the God analog.

The completists argue for a divine plan while Cayce and hers argue for a lack of intentionality in the universe.

People in the novel are on a grail quest, determining whether teleology is real or whether human pattern recognition imposes it upon the world.

Who here has read The Crying of Lot 49?

Foucault's Pendulum?

Pattern Recognition is in the same vein. It's an allegory, broadly speaking, about man's search for meaning.

Int he book he even says how close to theology the FFF debates get, that's a pretty clear telegraph of one of his underlying themes at work.

By the reference to Focaults Pendulum, do you mean that the comon theme is bringing about meaning by the search for meaning?
E.g. those lectors fooling around with pretending having found a lead to the Holy grail and some ppl. take them seriously?

Or do you think about the search for an "objective meaning"?
Foucaults Pendulum would IMO support both notions, but it is so dark, it smells of despair, addiction and insanity to me. And if I remember correctly they create more of an evil spirit, a rumour that grows stronger everytime its existence is denied.
While PR has a more live, concious, sane feel to me. The creator is real and the quest for meaning does not destroy those who embark on it, but rather gives the footage meaning?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Billy Billions,

I myself lack the heart to rate the author's works in better-than fashion.

As to my reaction to Spook Country; ecstatic fascination bordering restless frustration.
The book burned my fingers. I couldn't read more than two chapters at the time, then I had to physically throw it away from me. Which is an unprecedented abuse of books on my part. At one time, I had to take few days off from SC and had to read another book in the meantime.

Why?

Because Spook Country is that good.

quote:

By the reference to Focaults Pendulum, do you mean that the comon theme is bringing about meaning by the search for meaning?
E.g. those lectors fooling around with pretending having found a lead to the Holy grail and some ppl. take them seriously?

Or do you think about the search for an "objective meaning"?
Foucaults Pendulum would IMO support both notions, but it is so dark, it smells of despair, addiction and insanity to me. And if I remember correctly they create more of an evil spirit, a rumour that grows stronger everytime its existence is denied.
While PR has a more live, concious, sane feel to me. The creator is real and the quest for meaning does not destroy those who embark on it, but rather gives the footage meaning?

I mean both. The search for meaning either results in teleology being proven or the characters overlaying it on a chaotic reality.

In Foucault's Pendulum they start the rumor but they find it was, possibly, already true. man creates God to find God is already doing fine without man, thank you very much.

There is the third option in these books whereby man gets so paranoid and apophenic that he breaks down.

You are right, in PR, things are less fraught with dread and doom.

None of the FFF group goes nuts or becomes obsessed in a paralytic way. It's more realistic, thier obsessions are founded in actual examples. Hell, this forum is an actual example of obsession.

How paralytic is our addiction to this site? What bits of my novel might I be revising even now if I wasn't fucking about typing this?

What might you all be doing if you weren't here so much?

It's mostly innocuous but taken to a Parkaboy level... well, imagine if he had purposed all that conniving to his clinets?

Although I would argue his pursuit of the mystery was the more worthy goal, but still, most rational Americans would think he and Cayce both were just crazy IRL.

quote:

Originally posted by Buell:
I myself lack the heart to rate the author's works in better-than fashion.

As to my reaction to Spook Country; ecstatic fascination bordering restless frustration.
The book burned my fingers. I couldn't read more than two chapters at the time, then I had to physically throw it away from me. Which is an unprecedented abuse of books on my part. At one time, I had to take few days off from SC and had to read another book in the meantime.

Why?

Because Spook Country is that good.

Could you be more specific?

Why do you find somehting good frustrating?

Is it your own desire to write?

is it the way in which you perceive his opinions in the book to incise so precisely into a grim American landscape?

Did the books pages actually self-immolate?

quote:

Originally posted by UberDog:
Did the books pages actually self-immolate?

I heard that if books do that too often they will go blank.

LOL and such.

quote:

Did the books pages actually self-immolate?

Some self-destruct, yes.

quote:

Could you be more specific?

Why do you find somehting good frustrating?

Is it your own desire to write?

is it the way in which you perceive his opinions in the book to incise so precisely into a grim American landscape?

Did the books pages actually self-immolate?

UberDog got my number here.
It's not only my desire to write, but that Gibson seemed to not only have hacked my brain and word processor for some ideas I thought were original which are to be part of my short stories under construction, but also he expressed them with more grace and intelligence than I could. That's not surpising but frustrating it is. And I found one such phenomenon in Pattern Recognition also.

Well, what hell I expected? He is William Gibson afterall.

I know nothing first-hand of any American landscape, I'm from Finland and never been to new world.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Buell,

quote:

Originally posted by Buell:

UberDog got my number here.
It's not only my desire to write, but that Gibson seemed to not only have hacked my brain and word processor for some ideas I thought were original which are to be part of my short stories under construction, but also he expressed them with more grace and intelligence than I could. That's not surpising but frustrating it is. And I found one such phenomenon in Pattern Recognition also.

Well, what hell I expected? He is William Gibson afterall.

Yeah, I wrote a novel back in 2002 that had to do with dead celebs and an impromptu reenactment of River's death outside the Viper Room.

When I read SC I wished I had tried harder to get mine published back in the day. It actually presaged stuff like TMZ and their ilk.

But, people hit on the same ideas from time to time, nothing to be done about it.

And he's the man, as it were.

quote:

I know nothing first-hand of any American landscape, I'm from Finland and never been to new world.

Our landscape is made entirely of gold and moral righteousness.

Cheers UberDog! There's surely nothing to be done about people having same train of thougts. I despaired over it in the past; my worst fears as a striving writer were that my ideas aren't original and that I repeat myself. Now I'm still striving but I put more weight on developing my own style than worrying about originality. Gibson's style is unmatched and the sheer power of it has inspired me propably more than any singular idea.

From what I gather the landscape is paved especially with the moral righteousness.

p.s. Had to consult wikipedia as to what is TMZ?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Buell,

Oh, yeah? TMZ hasn't invaded Finland yet, huh?

I think every writer starts out both consciously emulating his heroes and subconsciously loathing that he/she does so.

It's largely a necessary step in finding one's own voice.

I still catch myself using too Gibson-esque tropes from time to time.

Many a thing, good or bad, haven't invaded Finland yet.
I'm still wearing Eddie Wedder clothes from 1994..

quote:

Originally posted by Buell:
Many a thing, good or bad, haven't invaded Finland yet.
I'm still wearing Eddie Wedder clothes from 1994..

1994 is so last year.

Who the fack is Eddie Wedder?

A guy who didn't die at age 27.

So, most of us here then?

Cobain died at 27 in 1994, not Eddie Vedder. I don't see what your connection is there.

I'm going to have to ask you too, are you high?

Unfortunately I am low.
Wished I was high, maybe then I could sleep. It's 6.55 AM where I'm typing and I haven't had a moments' sleep.

There's no connection.

I didn't die at age 27 either ~sigh~ so I identify with Eddie.