This was mentioned in Edinburgh.

Gibson called it literary naturalism, meaning that the youth of today use brand names to describe items rather than generic names.

I found it got right on my tits, quite frankly. Especially when he called a pen a "Bic". No one calls a pen a Bic. Not even people who pay money to read Vice and worship Nathan Barley. Some call it a Biro, which is a brand name and would have been more acceptable.

quote:

Originally posted by Justy:
If I recall, it wasn't that Adidas made the boots for Spec Ops, but that the boots were named after a Spec Ops group... or something like that.

GSG 9. And they are made by Adidas. They look unimpressive, though.

Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Product_placement

(snip)

Product placement is also used in books (particularly novels) and video games, such as Crazy Taxi, which featured numerous real retail stores as game destinations. However, sometimes the economics are reversed, and video game makers pay for the rights to use real sports teams and players.

quote:

Originally posted by petebertine:
Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Product_placement

(snip)

Product placement is also used in books (particularly novels) and video games, such as Crazy Taxi, which featured numerous real retail stores as game destinations. However, sometimes the economics are reversed, and video game makers pay for the rights to use real sports teams and players.

I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that product placement exists, but there is a difference between using a brand name product in a story and being paid to use a brand name product in a story and being paid because you used a product in a story.

You fail to provide any link to the existence of brand names in Spook Country and WG/Pengin profiting from them.

Just because I can prove that polar bears exist doesn't mean that a polar bear is what ate your sandwitch out of the break room fridge.

hmpf
I stopped posting on this board in order to get back to work, but this is too f***ing annoying.

quote:

Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Product_placement

(snip)

Product placement is also used in books (particularly novels) and video games, such as Crazy Taxi, which featured numerous real retail stores as game destinations. However, sometimes the economics are reversed, and video game makers pay for the rights to use real sports teams and players.

I'm quite sure we all know what product placement is. This is *like* the William Gibson board. You still haven't documented that WG is sponsored by Adidas or others.

quote:

Especially when he called a pen a "Bic". No one calls a pen a Bic.

Well, I would have agreed with you on that if not my 30-year old colleague had used it just yesterday, and I was reminded of Gibson. She is francophone, so I gather it may be something Canadian.
One of the interesting things in PR was the discussion of brands' very different significances in different cultural contexts. Which might be why petebertine thinks the brand-names were more relevant in that book.
But in SC, one important theme is the pervasiveness of digital media, meaning it would be absurd to avoid the role of products in the media.
The more general stuff, about WG's entire body of work, has been said.

Give me a minute. One has to provide the existence of Product Placement in books before one can then chase it down farther.

This will keep you further annoyed:

http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?dist=n...DD66CEE6%7D&keyword=

. . . and where in that article does it mention anything about Spook Country?

Books would be so much more real without brands.

"Peter and Jane got in the black car. They drove along a road. They arrived in a city and went to a shop and bought a thing"

Or perhaps we could just make up names for stuff.

"Peter and Jane got into the black Rumphlfluger. They drove along the M1436927.4 intermotorhighway. They arrived in Pchuk and went to the fherrrrrrrrrringer shop and bought a wang dinger"

You know, Roald Dahl might have made it work, but I don't think it's working for me. I'm a bit concerned that someone might take the germanic sounding name of the car to mean I'm sponsored by Volkswagen.

Awwwwww... poor guy. I'm not writing this for you. Got to bring the level of awareness up across the whole site before I deliver the hammer blow. You know the whole PR value. A slow steady climax. Good to know I've got a good foil. Point and counter point make it more interesting for those who lurk.

How about you piss or get off the pot?

If you have some evidence that William Gibson is being paid to mention products in his books, post it. If not, you're making yourself look like an idiot.

The publisher gets paid. Not Gibson.

I think I just found the "add petebertine to ignore list" button.

Note: I was called a Troll. Then I brought out swearing from the "enlightened." Now I'm an Idiot.

This is jolly good fun.

When I bring out the evidence I assume you'll say I forged it.

Erks you however to realize that product placement takes place in novels. Education is painful.

And Penguin phone up Gibson and say "Can we have 4 VWs, 11 iPods and a couple of Glocks in the next book?", and Gibson goes "Well sure, I think I can write a story around that, but don't forget I still owe you a couple of Apples from the last one".

quote:

Erks you however to realize that product placement takes place in novels.

We were well aware of that fact before you ever appeared on the board. The fact that you don't understand that makes you look like an idiot. Education is painful.

quote:

Originally posted by petebertine:
Note: I was called a Troll. Then I brought out swearing from the "enlightened." Now I'm an Idiot.

This is jolly good fun.

Isn't that the very definition of trolling? Finding fun in simply being provocative?

Simply put: what you're talking about isn't new. Isn't news. Won't "enlighten us" (or anyone, really), simply because it's been noticed before, and discussed before.

quote:

Originally posted by Kradlum:
Books would be so much more real without brands.

"Peter and Jane got in the black car. They drove along a road. They arrived in a city and went to a shop and bought a thing"

Or perhaps we could just make up names for stuff.

"Peter and Jane got into the black Rumphlfluger. They drove along the M1436927.4 intermotorhighway. They arrived in Pchuk and went to the fherrrrrrrrrringer shop and bought a wang dinger"

You know, Roald Dahl might have made it work, but I don't think it's working for me. I'm a bit concerned that someone might take the germanic sounding name of the car to mean I'm sponsored by Volkswagen.

Ahahahahah! Good post, Kradlum. That's exactly it.

Guys,

This is obviously a clever ploy on the Gibson's part to see how vociferously his rabid fans will defend his artistic integrity.

The wikipedia entry you link to repeatedly states that product placements are "used in books (particularly novels)" yet failes to give one single example of it.


There have in fact been unsuccessful attempts at product placements in books, most notably Fay Weldons "The Bulgari Connection" which was laughed out of bookstores back in 2001. More common though is the promotional tie-in, as exemplified in this New York Times article on a YA-novel.


But to suggest that product placement in books is as common as in movies or tv, and WG and his publisher has sold ad-space for "Spook Country" in the same way as, say the producers of the Transformers-movie, simply shows that you don't really know much about the industry.

quote:

Originally posted by Justy:
If I recall, it wasn't that Adidas made the boots for Spec Ops, but that the boots were named after a Spec Ops group... or something like that.

Without looking up the actual name, I think it was GSG9 or something like that. What ever the name is of course Adidas is going to make it, GSG9 is the German Spec Ops group!

I think perhaps petebertine has an ulterior motive, since these posts are popping up in both the spoiler and non-spoiler threads. Perhaps we could entice Trogdor and Boogerhead over here to start fighting with petebertine?