Wow, this is like the early 90s.

quote:

Originally posted by petebertine:
The publisher gets paid. Not Gibson.

Uh, no. They don't. Really.

Surely you're not that naive Tiger! Haven't you noticed your bosses strutting around in their APC jackets, driving their spiffy new VWs and the copious stacks of Norman Cohn’s "The Pursuit of the Millennium" lying around the office!

quote:

Originally posted by petebertine:
Listen all. I loved Gibson's previous work, but need to make a serious point here. Product Placement in printed text by big publishing houses is a fact and to me it's a nasty fact. I don't think a lot of people know it's there.

When the leader of CyberPunk allows his work to become rife with product placement, well I think it sucks.

As has been stated several times here, Gibson has always used brand names in his work. Always. If you'd actually read any, as you claim, you'd know that.

quote:

Guys,

This is obviously a clever ploy on the Gibson's part to see how vociferously his rabid fans will defend his artistic integrity.

the name makes me think of this guy


hey d'ya reckon burberry'll give me a cut? or at least a damn jacket.

ROTFLMAO!!!

Conspiracy theories! Getchyour Conspiracy Theories Hereyah! Still hot and Steaming!

quote:

Originally posted by misty:

the name makes me think of this guy


hey d'ya reckon burberry'll give me a cut? or at least a damn jacket.

Oh my shiteestas!

I think I fucked that guy in the ass in the installation gallery bathroom the other night!

quote:

Originally posted by martin:
Conspiracy theories! Getchyour Conspiracy Theories Hereyah! Still hot and Steaming!

I'll take two!

quote:

Originally posted by tiger68:

quote:

Originally posted by petebertine:
The publisher gets paid. Not Gibson.

Uh, no. They don't. Really.

Yeah you can say that now, sat in you Jos. Banks coat and your ADIDIAS listening to your iPod posting from your VW on your iBook, but I don't think petebertine believes you.

quote:

Originally posted by Kitsune:

I found it got right on my tits, quite frankly. Especially when he called a pen a "Bic". No one calls a pen a Bic. Not even people who pay money to read Vice and worship Nathan Barley. Some call it a Biro, which is a brand name and would have been more acceptable.

It depends on which country you are from. Both Biro and Bic have become generic nouns for ballpoint pens.

The Hungarian brothers László and Georg Bíró invented and patented the ballpoint pen in 1938

Frenchman Marcel Bich bought this patent and mass produced such pens under the trademark name Bic from 1950 onwards

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Memetic Engineer,

quote:

Originally posted by psyclone:

quote:

Originally posted by remotespook:

quote:

Originally posted by petebertine:
the unrealistic use of ipods instead of USB memory

wait, so what you are saying is "it would be obvious to use USB memory and not obvious to use ipods"? damn those criminal spooks and their underhanded use of technology!

Funny, in my lab people have been using ipods as transfer hard drives for years. When you have big datasets to transfer to other computers, even the large USB sticks aren't enough.

Since the iPods, at least according to Hubertus Bigend, are being used to hide data using steganography, they are probably superior to plain USB memory sticks for this purpose since they are plausibly likely to contain thousands of files, unlike most USB memory sticks commonly available in 2006. You could probably hide a lengthy message within the iPod's titles and meta data, let alone within one or more .mp3 files.

Whether that is the best way of sending secret messages between places which have reasonable or excellent internet connections, is another matter, but it does provide a plausible physical object for smuggling and interception purposes, although a mobile phone or a digital camera might also have sufficed.

quote:

Perhaps we could entice Trogdor and Boogerhead over here to start fighting with petebertine?

Badgerssss? BADGERSSS?!? We don' need no steenkeeng BADGERS!

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I found it got right on my tits, quite frankly. Especially when he called a pen a "Bic". No one calls a pen a Bic. Not even people who pay money to read Vice and worship Nathan Barley. Some call it a Biro, which is a brand name and would have been more acceptable.

I remember a reference to a Bic lighter, Bic IS a common synechdoche for lighters, via the ancient Flick your Bic ad campaign of the lase 60s.

But that aside, while I didn't like his sue of 'logo specificators' in this book as well as others, I note that one neat thing you can do with those specificators is intrude quantum touches od first person stream-of-conscious blinks of view.

Having someone handle a Bic rather than a pen is more meaningful than saying they held a ballpoint rather than a pen. Hardly anyone would notice that a ballpoint is a ballpoint: they're the generic pens today. They would notice if it was an old-fashioned fountain pen, or one of the newer, svelter, ball/felt hybrids.

And, they also would notice if it was the traditional iconic (probably blue or black) Bic ballpoint pen:

http://www.respiratoryonline.com/clip_image009.jpg

Done properly, the reader's sensorium momentarily registers 'Bic-pen-ness, seeing it as if they were the character. Creates a merging of reader and character identity. Simple cheap trick but handled adroitly, extremely effective, not so much of itself but how it heightens the immediacy and presence level of other narrative components.'

Having finally finished the book and found some free time, I feel entitled to comment.

I just thought, from reading the interviews and following Mr. Gibson for quite a long time (ten years or so) that the characters he identifies with (or like) use items he also likes. So Cayce likes both Starbucks and Apple because Mr. Gibson himself does so, no matter what her cool sensor should do.

Hollis of course has to use another Apple, and drive a VW, because he likes (and uses) them. Brown drives a Taunus, which probably means he does not care much about them. Tito lusts after Yohji clothes, so I suppose the writer lusts after them too. Or would lust if he was forty years younger, possibly.

If the brand has a positive image I think it comes from the author mind. Which is why we never get to know the Old Man's coat maker, just that it is an "exceptionally good coat". Because he does not like the Old Man much, unlike Milgrim.

If he takes the time to google and use the name, it is because it means something to him.

That's an interesting take. I'd add that many "exceptionally good" clothes are not always readily identifiable. The Old Man's coat has no easily seen label. I actually think Gibson likes the Old Man, at least because the Old Man is the kind of hard-bitton Cold War-era intelligence pro that the Bush II administration seems hell-bent on obsoleting for no good reason.

Bespoke

I agree with Justy, exceptionally good clothing does not have a brand name, nor is mass-produced. It is individually made for the client.

I see. There are some cultural differences here. Where I come from, individually made clothes were the norm, and foreign high quality brands the luxury item. Not brands as such, but descriptive terms such as Saville Row, Insbruck hunting coat, Milanese raw silk ties...

We get the old fashioned Saville Row suit for the Old Man when meeting Garreth.

I still think that the casual murder and the loose cannon approach makes him less sympathetic. He is a bit in the same class as Virek, the AIs or Bigend in PR, a plot device with unlimited resources to get the story going and justify any necessary plot turns.

I think we get to see more, and better, of Bigend because Mr. Gibson has discovered he likes him, so he is "discovering" more things about him. Which makes him even more likeable, so I am sure he has to appear again.

AFAK, whenever you use trademarks, the publisher legal dept will previously contact the owners of those trademarks and have printed and registered documents (licenses) ensuring there won't be lawsuits and other annoyances after the book strike the streets.

This is not a "light subject": when you use a brand/trademark, the brand owner will want to know how it will globally affect the perception of the company and products. This process takes months if not years.

If you don't take that into account, you probably will wind up having to pay (a large?) part of the money from the sales of the book to Apple, Adidas, etc... for the use of their trademarks. As far as I know publishers, they'll try to push all responsibility to the writer.

So, it may be much faster if you previously contact them and fix the rules for the merchandising and have all the process supervised.

On the other hand, if you think about the artistic use of known brands/trademarks, it makes the story more plausible. Most people know what a "Corona beer" is, but we would have to figure out what the hell is a "Bucho Beer" Everybody knows what an iPod is, but most people would have to figure out what an iClone is (unless you're in Brazil where most people have iClones)

I don't think WG makes excessive product placement and I really don't think it affects negatively his work in any way.

quote:

So, it may be much faster if you previously contact them and fix the rules for the merchandising and have all the process supervised.

Sorry,

It may be much faster and safer it the publisher previously contact them and fix the rules for the merchandising and have all the process supervised...