I have a suspicion that the studio is rushing the film.

So I guess I better get cracking if I want to beat the Cease and Desist letter that I am dreading. A reminder that Gibson can save me from this if he just gives me permission to make a game. As I keep stating the only way Neuromancer can be adapted is via video game, the reason is because the novel is just too long to adapt into a film.. Jhonny Mnemonic was shorter and even that had to be cut down. Games have no limit in length (good examples of this: Deus Ex, Final Fantasy 7 and Omikron the Nomad Soul)

I am currently half way through writing the screenplay for Chiba City Blues, once its written I can then go on and begin drawing all the animated cutscenes and Neuromancer will then take shape. I just want to tell everyone that it definitely IS happening on my end and I really hope you enjoy what I come up with when I demo it later in the year (Assuming its polished and ready by the end of they year). (I will be making a demo video of the first milestone build)

I'd love to avoid any issues with the studio making the film.

Mr_Cyberpunk,

I agree with you on that. I think a movie based on Neuromancer would take at least 3-4 hours to do justice to the book, if at all. I remember Kenneth Branaghs Hamlet which was 4 hours long (eventhough there was a 2 hour edition, I hate movies edited like that) and it was absolutely great, at least to me.

So, Neuromancer is hard to film. But a game, especialy an adventure would be great. I downloaded a demo from your site but didn't check it out yet. It is really cool that you're working on something like that. It is one of my dreams one day to work on a project like that also. Well, good luck to you, I'm looking forward to it.



BTW do you do the drawings all by yourself? If so, how do you do it? Just wondering, cos I'm an illustrator...

Keep up the great work!

quote:

Originally posted by Mr_Cyberpunk:
As I keep stating the only way Neuromancer can be adapted is via video game, the reason is because the novel is just too long to adapt into a film.

One could make an excellent film from the book. I disagree with you completely. You don't need the whole book to make a great film.

quote:

Originally posted by Neo:
Mr_Cyberpunk,

I agree with you on that. I think a movie based on Neuromancer would take at least 3-4 hours to do justice to the book, if at all. I remember Kenneth Branaghs Hamlet which was 4 hours long (eventhough there was a 2 hour edition, I hate movies edited like that) and it was absolutely great, at least to me.

So, Neuromancer is hard to film. But a game, especialy an adventure would be great. I downloaded a demo from your site but didn't check it out yet. It is really cool that you're working on something like that. It is one of my dreams one day to work on a project like that also. Well, good luck to you, I'm looking forward to it.



BTW do you do the drawings all by yourself? If so, how do you do it? Just wondering, cos I'm an illustrator...

Keep up the great work!

Brannagh's Hamlet was a great film, in my top ten.

But I think you guys forget the shorthand that film is, you don't need all the descriptions, you don't need all the characters to get the story itself across.

quote:

Originally posted by UberDog:

quote:

Originally posted by Mr_Cyberpunk:
As I keep stating the only way Neuromancer can be adapted is via video game, the reason is because the novel is just too long to adapt into a film.

One could make an excellent film from the book. I disagree with you completely. You don't need the whole book to make a great film.

Then I'll give you this choice. Which would you prefer - Deus Ex as a game or Deus Ex as a film.
Ideally the game wins.. Why? because it gives you so much content, film cannot do that, film can only keep you interested for 2 hours. Games can go beyond that, and as we've established so can novels. But also my biggest issue is with the motives behind the film. My motive for the game is simple.. because the original game rocks and its just annoying to see how old and dated it looks now.

Neuromancer already worked as a game and was commercially successful.

Can a film do that? well if Jhonny Mnemonic is anything to go by then most likely not.

Further more, at least with me you can tell me what you want and how you want it.

quote:

BTW do you do the drawings all by yourself? If so, how do you do it? Just wondering, cos I'm an illustrator...

Photoshop and Wacom Tablet.. however I am investing in some new technology that'll improve the quality of the graphics overall.

I am also programming and designing the game as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr_Cyberpunk:
Then I'll give you this choice. Which would you prefer - Deus Ex as a game or Deus Ex as a film.
Ideally the game wins.. Why? because it gives you so much content, film cannot do that, film can only keep you interested for 2 hours. Games can go beyond that, and as we've established so can novels. But also my biggest issue is with the motives behind the film. My motive for the game is simple.. because the original game rocks and its just annoying to see how old and dated it looks now.

Neuromancer already worked as a game and was commercially successful.

Can a film do that? well if Jhonny Mnemonic is anything to go by then most likely not.

Further more, at least with me you can tell me what you want and how you want it.

Games aren't even close to films yet in their breadth, meaniing and potential for moving people.

They aren't even on the same playing field.It's like comparing a comic from the 1940's to Of Mice and Men.

Games are, for now, fun distractions, they don't yet possess meaningful narrative content.

Games are neat. maybe in the future they will be more so, but not yet.

I enjoy video games, but as art, they're in their infancy. I'd be impressed if you could change that.

As for what I want? You mean from Neuromancer?

I'd like to see a film adaptation that takes themes in the book not fully explored and runs with them. i don't feel a need to rehash the book.

Guys, of course Neuromancer could be a good film adaptation, sure it is possible to make a great film out of it. But I think it needs a really really great director and a very good screenplay. The screenplay is the key here. Honestly, something deepdown inside tells me that this key element won't satisfy me somehow, I don't know. Because Neuromancer is a deep novel that has details which makes the story really unique. But again, of course Neuromancer isn't impossible to adapt into a movie, but it is damn difficult to convey all the atmosphere and feeling. That's why I've said Ridley Scott, W. Brothers or Alex Proyas should be the director.

As for the video game - movie comparison. I think today games have far better scenarios than most Hollywood movies. Mass Effect, Killzone, Halo just to name a few. The video game industry almost matches the movie industry in value today. I'm an adventure fan, I can clearly say that games like Monkey Island, Broken Sword, old Police Quest series and many games have had far better stories and scenarios than most of Hollywood movies, which appeared at the same period of time.. Of course this is open to be discussed.

Interaction is the key here, you can interact and do thousands of things in a game, you can explore everything, if the game lets you do so of course. And if the game's atmosphere, cut scenes and artistic style is good, then it is even more fun! But a movie is just something you can only watch and wish it is fun to do so.

I'm looking forward to the movie - if it happens - and looking even more forward to the game, whether made by My_Cyberpunk or someone else..

My_Cyberpunk,

Photoshop and Wacom, that's what I use too And Painter. But I plan to buy a Cintiq, however a friend of mine told me that it has a latency problem, when you draw a line the corsor would react a little late, thus making drawing more challenging which is bad. I just wanted to know if you are using a Cintiq. Thanks anyway, keep up the good work.

Edit: I've checked a video presentation on youtube about Cintiq 21'', gotta say it has a very big latency, damn!!!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Neo,

Adventure is a bit different as a case... but Neuromancer isn't an adventure film.

Anyway, i stand by my assertion that video games are not nearly as deep, complicated or well written as films.

Well, I didn't say that Neuromancer is or will be an adventure film. Every story is an adventure after all, isn't, that's something different. I've just said that Neuromancer would be a great adventure game, point & click game, graphic adventure game or what you wanna call. (It was a great game back in 1988 anyway)

To me, movies can be deep if it's well written and realised. Games are the same and they can be even deeper, it depends. But of course just watching is different than participating and being a part of something as it is in a game. Two different things, both can be very deep or very shallow depending on the script, scenario, director, artists whatever.

Metal Gear Solid for example, it is one of the deepest games ever created. I don't even think that the movie adaptation will do justice to the game.

quote:

Originally posted by UberDog:
Adventure is a bit different as a case... but Neuromancer isn't an adventure film.

Anyway, i stand by my assertion that video games are not nearly as deep, complicated or well written as films.

Hmmm, I guess one could say that in Books/Movies/Games different narrative methods have to be used to transport the same content?
As you said, games are a very young medium and who knows what game designers come up with in the next 10-20 years?

On the other hand games can create a level of identification with a character that most films would have a hard time to accomplish, so with increasing sophistication of game-designers (in terms of narrative skill) maybe games with depth comparable to films are possible in the future only that the means would be very different.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Billy Billions,

quote:

Originally posted by UberDog:
Brannagh's Hamlet was a great film, in my top ten.

But I think you guys forget the shorthand that film is, you don't need all the descriptions, you don't need all the characters to get the story itself across.

Do you mean like what they tried with Jonny M.? Just take the basic plot and put a lot of other stuff (like Jonny also being a hacker) from Sprawl trilogy + Burning Chrome in there?

I don't know. What about the WG style of writing ? Isn't that a big obstacle, too? (I'm not an artist, so maybe that isn't an obstacle at all)

Everybody thought Ring-trilogy was impossible to film, but Peter Jackson made a good job of it. On the other hand, Tolkien is a 'worldbuilder', so the fictious world with all the rules and interdependecies was there, while WG is definitely not a worldbuilder, he relies on your fantasy to fill in the picture. So one would have to have somebody who does the world-building for the movie.

Also many 'rules' of this world are explained in inner monologue, e.g. when Case spots a Sarariman with the MG-Logo and muses how dangerous it is for him in Night City, risking to end up in a spare parts clinic (My interpretation was that this logo indicates expensive body modifification (so ppl. would like to part the mods from their bearer) that do not boost defensive skills (making the parting easier).)
I thought that those 2-3 lines where pretty important for the description of Night City & the Neuromancer world in general.

In a movie, one would have to have Case explain that to Linda or something like that, or have a voice over (but voice-overs aren't really ..., ya know?)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Billy Billions,

quote:

Originally posted by Mr_Cyberpunk:
I am also programming and designing the game as well.

I stumbled over some Neuromancer-conceptual art, that I quite liked, maybe it's not been posted yet:
http://visualicious.de/

You have to fumble a bit with that book-thing, it's in "miscelaneous".

quote:

Edit: I've checked a video presentation on youtube about Cintiq 21'', gotta say it has a very big latency, damn!!!

Yeah I was planning on getting one, is it really that bad? I'd like to see the video if thats alright.

And for the last time stop posting that concept art :P so many people keep showing it to me.. I saw it before I started the project.

I was thinking about how exactly I am going to explain the small details. And I've opted against using voice overs.. throughout the script that I have written all of Gibson's descriptions are missing and all there is are dialog.

And about the Games as Art thing. I'd argue against everything you said, if a novel can be written it can be taken word for word and converted into a video game. Have you ever played Final Fantasy 7? if you play that then expect to be sucked into the story because it is one of the best games ever made and gives a good example as to why games should be on the same level as art (but as I say shouldn't be associated with art because of art culture conflicting with gamer culture)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mr_Cyberpunk,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNpbi2uXsz0

That's the video buddy. Well the latency looks very bad, in my opinion of course. Hope it gives you an idea!

And this is the 12'' version, it is better in latency but still not great, but whatever

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYvEKzGWT7k&feature=related

I think I can explain that latency, The cintiq requires shit loads of RAM to work in dual screen mode. There are a couple of other videos on youtube where that latency issue is non-existent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE2APo_EORQ

I'm pretty positive it has more to do with the computer than the actual cintiq since my Graphire even does that when the ram is full and photoshop is a ram hog.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr_Cyberpunk:
And for the last time stop posting that concept art :P so many people keep showing it to me.. I saw it before I started the project.

Whoops! Sorry, just wanted to help *ducking the rotten tomatoes*.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr_Cyberpunk:
I was thinking about how exactly I am going to explain the small details. And I've opted against using voice overs.. throughout the script that I have written all of Gibson's descriptions are missing and all there is are dialog.

In case this was addressed at me: I thought more about a Neuromancer Movie than about a game. I neither played the old game, nor saw your Demo (will get it ASAP). If you got it all in Dialog & it works, that would really be something IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr_Cyberpunk:
And about the Games as Art thing. I'd argue against everything you said, if a novel can be written it can be taken word for word and converted into a video game. Have you ever played Final Fantasy 7? if you play that then expect to be sucked into the story because it is one of the best games ever made and gives a good example as to why games should be on the same level as art (but as I say shouldn't be associated with art because of art culture conflicting with gamer culture)

Uhm, again I'm not sure wether that was addressed at me, cause I argued kind of pro-games (why wouldn't I? I love 'em!)?
I haven't played F7, but I know the kind of immersion a really good game with a strong story can produce.
That was kind of my point: Every media has its own "means".
As to "word for word": Uhm, really? Well, you certainly have a lot more freedom compared to a director ... Maybe I should get FF7.


@Mr_Cyberpunk:
Does the Demo run with Vista? I get the Menu, but only a Blackscreen after "start new game".

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Billy Billions,

The last two quotes were directed at Uberdog. sorry. Quote button didn't hit /

Quote 1 was a joke I get that link like every week of people trying to help.. but the fact is with Concept artists you have to invent your own style, whilst I've seen his I have my own preference to how to do this, Mostly I'd be making things more dirtier than he did to give a more photo realistic look (example would be the tech demo.. but doesn't show how far I could take it). I mostly did the tech demo to experiment with my ideas - the tech demo was greeted with mixed reviews, some people hated it and others loved it.

I think the only reason why anyone considers games as not being art is because games are designed to have gameplay factors making the game "fun".. whereas novels and films a strictly for telling stories. What I have done in my game design is allowed the story to be told whilst adding points in the story for game play elements where suitable, identical to most adventure games and interactive films of the 1990s (but not like that awful Jhonny Mnemonic interactive movie.. yuck! - I was thinking more like The X Files Game which is an excelent example of what I'd like to do with Neuromancer.)

The story is priority for this game, second gameplay. I hope that relives a few people's nerves a bit.

quote:

Originally posted by Neo:
Well, I didn't say that Neuromancer is or will be an adventure film. Every story is an adventure after all, isn't, that's something different. I've just said that Neuromancer would be a great adventure game, point & click game, graphic adventure game or what you wanna call. (It was a great game back in 1988 anyway)

To me, movies can be deep if it's well written and realised. Games are the same and they can be even deeper, it depends. But of course just watching is different than participating and being a part of something as it is in a game. Two different things, both can be very deep or very shallow depending on the script, scenario, director, artists whatever.

Metal Gear Solid for example, it is one of the deepest games ever created. I don't even think that the movie adaptation will do justice to the game.

OK, here is my position: Games are not yet nearly as well written as films, Even a mediocre film is written better than 99% of games I've played.

quote:

Originally posted by Billy Billions:

quote:

Originally posted by UberDog:
Brannagh's Hamlet was a great film, in my top ten.

But I think you guys forget the shorthand that film is, you don't need all the descriptions, you don't need all the characters to get the story itself across.

Do you mean like what they tried with Jonny M.? Just take the basic plot and put a lot of other stuff (like Jonny also being a hacker) from Sprawl trilogy + Burning Chrome in there?

I don't know. What about the WG style of writing ? Isn't that a big obstacle, too? (I'm not an artist, so maybe that isn't an obstacle at all)

Everybody thought Ring-trilogy was impossible to film, but Peter Jackson made a good job of it. On the other hand, Tolkien is a 'worldbuilder', so the fictious world with all the rules and interdependecies was there, while WG is definitely not a worldbuilder, he relies on your fantasy to fill in the picture. So one would have to have somebody who does the world-building for the movie.

Also many 'rules' of this world are explained in inner monologue, e.g. when Case spots a Sarariman with the MG-Logo and muses how dangerous it is for him in Night City, risking to end up in a spare parts clinic (My interpretation was that this logo indicates expensive body modifification (so ppl. would like to part the mods from their bearer) that do not boost defensive skills (making the parting easier).)
I thought that those 2-3 lines where pretty important for the description of Night City & the Neuromancer world in general.

In a movie, one would have to have Case explain that to Linda or something like that, or have a voice over (but voice-overs aren't really ..., ya know?)

That bit wouldn't be in the film most likely. if it was case would look at the logo on the Man's hand while he held one of the straps. He'd then say: "Corp type like you, you're looking to get rolled inot a spare parts clinic in this neighborhood." Or somehting like that.

But you don't need to because case can simply walk past the spare parts clinics and they look seedy and you get that people roll each other for parts when it looks like a pawn shop.

Not that you even need the spare parts clinics as such. It's so cyberpunk a this point that it's almost a given.

The audience already has a huge Sci-Fi short hand and lexicon and encyclopedia in their heads, you don't haver to explain things.

You don't have to underestimate their intelligence. they'll thank you if you don't.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr_Cyberpunk:
The last two quotes were directed at Uberdog. sorry. Quote button didn't hit /

Quote 1 was a joke I get that link like every week of people trying to help.. but the fact is with Concept artists you have to invent your own style, whilst I've seen his I have my own preference to how to do this, Mostly I'd be making things more dirtier than he did to give a more photo realistic look (example would be the tech demo.. but doesn't show how far I could take it). I mostly did the tech demo to experiment with my ideas - the tech demo was greeted with mixed reviews, some people hated it and others loved it.

I think the only reason why anyone considers games as not being art is because games are designed to have gameplay factors making the game "fun".. whereas novels and films a strictly for telling stories. What I have done in my game design is allowed the story to be told whilst adding points in the story for game play elements where suitable, identical to most adventure games and interactive films of the 1990s (but not like that awful Jhonny Mnemonic interactive movie.. yuck! - I was thinking more like The X Files Game which is an excelent example of what I'd like to do with Neuromancer.)

The story is priority for this game, second gameplay. I hope that relives a few people's nerves a bit.

Final Fantasy 7 had artistic elements. I didn't like it, it was cheese, but then, so is most sci fi in novels and film.

Deus Ex, while fun, is just rolling in every bad cyberpunk stereotype out there.

The Neuro film, if it ever is made, shouldn't be made as a "cyberpunk" film at all.

Gibson has always had more to do with the Beats than he has with scifi writers.

My fear is that the novel will be turned into just another sci film like any number of the Paul WS Anderson crap that is peddled about these days.