In the long term I think some people will survive. But who and how many is the rub.

Human ingenuity has a way of coming along a moment too late. Too late for many at least.

Since I don't own a fallout shelter stocked with a years food and a hundred guns, I tend to worry about the people who run the world.

It's part of the human condition that things aren't real until they're real for you.

quote:

In the long term I think some people will survive. But who and how many is the rub.

really it shouldn't have to be too bad. This conversation couldn't have happened 20 years ago because there wasn't a good web or hookups. I think response rates and learning in human beings are getting better and better

It's nice to see a politician in office willing to make the tough decisions and take a stand that may end up costing him his job.

The entire question of ecology and quality of life staggers the mind with it's complexity. I get the impression that the big petro people really don't care. So many alternatives have been swept under the rug, from Tesla till now.

We need a shift in the paradigm. The ultra powerful need to either feel the pinch or be destroyed by their own folly. The average person without an "empire" to lose is only willing to go so far in the pursuit of his happiness.
But the very wealthy don't live by the rules the rest of us do.

They don't give a fig about the cancer rates. (until they come down with cancer)
They don't care about what's in the tap water, they don't drink it anyway.
They don't care about the particulates in the air, they have efficient filtration systems for their homes and autos.

It goes on and on. The internet is a great help of course, but who controls it?

Things will have to get a lot worse before real meaningful change will be enacted.

Some of get it, but still most of us don't.

Things are going to get much worse before they become unbearable.

quote:

We need a shift in the paradigm.

One might say we ARE the shift in the paradigm.

COmet Sapiens, coming to a global catastrophe near you sooner or later.

quote:

Originally posted by kenmeer livermaile:

quote:

We need a shift in the paradigm.

One might say we ARE the shift in the paradigm.

Quite.

"Quite."

Right.

Bloody well.

Gotta right to say...

so what is a carbon trading market? If I go out in the dry belt of B.C. and irrigate a desert I'll take tons of carbon out of the air, but can I get credit for that?

Depends if you've got permission to irrigate in the first place.

Here's a basic idea:

I slip on a pair of steel-cap Blundstones, and kick you in crotch. Hard. Now, it hurts for you to pee, maybe you limp for a few days afterwards, and any thought of procreating is a think of the past.

Of course, it's bad. But instead, it's all perfectly legal, as I've paid three other guys, who kick people in their crotches as well, but wearing only fluffy slippers, not to kick three other guys in the crotch.

So, for all statistical intents and purposes, no one actually got kicked in the fuzzy funpark. Your newfound fear of sitting down doesn't actually exist. In fact, the total amount of crotch kicking has been reduced by two and a bit, as the guys I bought the crotch-kicking credits off were pretty pissweak in their kicking.

Now, you could argue that you're still bruised and pissing sideways, but, in fact, you never got kicked.

Besides, I'll bitch to a Senate commitee that if I were not allowed to use my inverse podiatry skills, the economy will collapse, inflation will go up, frogs'll rain from the sky and who they gonna believe, huh?

I get that, oil companies can spend guilt money or now, Have to spend guilt money for spewing carbon, but what about civilians? If I have a big back yard and I put in 6 large ponds that grow algae and I fix 1 ton a year, shouldn't I get paid?

They might even go for it... people in apartments with big crops of switchgrass on the roof... wooden furniture makers given a credit for sequestering carbon...

weird.

quote:

Originally posted by kenmeer livermaile:
The Chicago I grew up in had its share of wind.

But Reno... THAT'S a windy city.

Chicago can get very windy regardless of of 19th century boosterism.

what if another plan to get this province carbon friendly was to get 20 guys with backhoes and excavators to build 100 rice patties,about 100k by 100k and flood them to grow algae. Seems like it would be a lot cheaper..

quote:

Originally posted by UberDog:

quote:

Originally posted by kenmeer livermaile:
The Chicago I grew up in had its share of wind.

But Reno... THAT'S a windy city.

Chicago can get very windy regardless of of 19th century boosterism.

Aye. But Reno has a virtually constant wind blowing down off the east slope of the Sierra Nevada.

I love and miss Chicago weather. Poised at the bottom tip of the Great Lakes, with the Great PLains westerlies hitting the Hudson bay northerlies, hitting the Gulf warm wetlies, hitting the backspin from the East Coast.

Brilliant if sometimes brutal.

quote:

Originally posted by lithos:
Depends if you've got permission to irrigate in the first place.

Here's a basic idea:

I slip on a pair of steel-cap Blundstones, and kick you in crotch. Hard. Now, it hurts for you to pee, maybe you limp for a few days afterwards, and any thought of procreating is a think of the past.

Of course, it's bad. But instead, it's all perfectly legal, as I've paid three other guys, who kick people in their crotches as well, but wearing only fluffy slippers, not to kick three other guys in the crotch.

So, for all statistical intents and purposes, no one actually got kicked in the fuzzy funpark. Your newfound fear of sitting down doesn't actually exist. In fact, the total amount of crotch kicking has been reduced by two and a bit, as the guys I bought the crotch-kicking credits off were pretty pissweak in their kicking.

Now, you could argue that you're still bruised and pissing sideways, but, in fact, you never got kicked.

Besides, I'll bitch to a Senate commitee that if I were not allowed to use my inverse podiatry skills, the economy will collapse, inflation will go up, frogs'll rain from the sky and who they gonna believe, huh?

And with that post, consider me enrolled. Awesome.

this video shows a new windmill
rather than using a turbine it uses a tight band that vibrates... he think 2-5$ would give light to a hut... but big ones interest me..across a valley!

The Tacoma Narrows! Brilliant! Destructiojn comes from unsuccessfully absorbed energy! IMagine all the power lines in the world turning into power generators as well as transmitters!

And dig that heavy duty fan. That wasn't made in CHina, I'll wager.

are carbon offsets a cop out

quote:

n late medieval times, the Catholic church raised money by selling indulgences, certificates that offered believers absolution for their sins. Not a bad deal, when you think about it. Good works take time and effort. Giving alms is so much easier.

quote:

The most popular offset is also the most suspect: tree planting.

I want to see the numbers. Right now the world creates a ton more carbon than we see in the numbers but the planet absorbs most of it. That is trees and plants absorb most of it. It will be interesting to see if the numbers skyrocket now that those plants are reaching saturation. I'll bet the 'suspect' tree planting is quite powerful.

I didn't really get what trees can do until I planted some on my land this year. They just don't need pampering (fossil fuel inputs) like water or fertilizer that other crops do. That's key.

hmm.

Show me an accurate way to measure how much carbon dioxide that tree, over a given time period, you've planted to assuage your social conscious of your purchase of that vintage Ford Galaxy, and I'll show you a cow with a square arsehole.

Then factor in fluctations caused by climatic conditions, soil conditions, tree health, how many leaves it's got left after that storm tore through the plantation like vindaloo through a baby, and how long it takes to grow to a size that'll actually absorb enough carbon to offset one trip to the shops in your Ford.

Yields of common crops

Crop kg oil/ha litres oil/ha lbs oil/acre US gal/acre
corn (maize) 145 172 129 18
cashew nut 148 176 132 19
oats 183 217 163 23
lupine 195 232 175 25
kenaf 230 273 205 29
calendula 256 305 229 33
cotton 273 325 244 35
hemp 305 363 272 39
soybean 375 446 335 48
coffee 386 459 345 49
linseed (flax) 402 478 359 51
hazelnuts 405 482 362 51
euphorbia 440 524 393 56
pumpkin seed 449 534 401 57
coriander 450 536 402 57
mustard seed 481 572 430 61
camelina 490 583 438 62
sesame 585 696 522 74
safflower 655 779 585 83
rice 696 828 622 88
tung oil tree 790 940 705 100
sunflowers 800 952 714 102
cocoa (cacao) 863 1,026 771 110
peanuts 890 1,059 795 113
opium poppy 978 1,163 873 124
rapeseed (Canola) 1,000 1,190 893 127
olives 1,019 1,212 910 129
castor beans 1,188 1,413 1,061 151
pecan nuts 1,505 1,791 1,344 191
jojoba 1,528 1,818 1,365 194
jatropha 1,590 1,892 1,420 202
macadamia nuts 1,887 2,246 1,685 240
Brazil nuts 2,010 2,392 1,795 255
avocado 2,217 2,638 1,980 282
coconut 2,260 2,689 2,018 287
oil palm 5,000 5,950 4,465 635
Chinese tallow 5,500 6,545 4,912 699
Algae (actual yield)* 6,894 7,660 6,151 819
Algae (theoretical yield)** 39,916 47,500 35,613 5,000