Not a statement of point of view on the greenhouse effect

Just fact.

quote:

http://www.globalclimate.org/Newsweek.htm

april 1975? a voice for business?

quote:

http://www.dinosauria.com/jdp/news/freeze.html

yes I agree with this. I would guess that Europe could get colder if the currents change because of warming..

quote:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1034077.cms

this reminds me of the debate over glaciers in Greenland.

We have this

but we also have

This

this is what my
local paper had to say about it.

Come on! Global warming is a hoax invented by bleeding heart pinko liberals.



Wake up AmeriKKKA!

Whoa, speaking of "global warming". Jack Webb looks HOT in that photo! Check the gold bracelet!

You definately have a point. He's dreamy.

In my opinion, opinions shouldnt come into it. Its just data.

If I was in a lifeboat and someone started drilling holes in it, maybe to get energy off a water wheel, I'm the kind of guy who would notice that the life boat was sinking.

The other guy would say it isn't.

We could argue over whether the boat was sinking, whether the guy had a stupid way to harvest energy... but those are opinions.

The trick is to focus on the waterline measurements. How high is the water in the boat?

If I say 'there are 6 inches of water in the boat' and the other guy says there isnt, all the other passengers can just measure.

Measurements are great that way...

But the measuring method won't identify how to stop the water rising in your boat or what's causing it, it just tells you that you have a water problem.

The guy with the waterwheel points over the side to a sunken boat and says "those guys didn't have a waterwheel, so the waterwheel can't be the problem, it's just natural for boats to sink."

Everyone gets involved in measuring the water level all over the boat, and just as the boat sinks they finally come to a consensus.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Kradlum,

"Check the gold bracelet!"
Whoa!!! Painful! Hand me the welding googles!
I Didnt know Jack Webb was Cuban!
Bet you he drove one of these too.

quote:

Many climatologists... believe the rapid temperature rise over the past 50 years is heavily driven by the burning of fossil fuels and other human activities that have spewed carbon dioxide and other "greenhouse gases" into the atmosphere. A vocal minority of scientists say the warming climate is the result of a natural cycle.

Which of these guys is looking at the facts? I just thought I'd ask.

the vocal minority?

For once I back a majority.

"Which of these guys is looking at the facts? I just thought I'd ask."

Well, if a bunch of scientists from all over the world say something is very likely the case; and a smaller group of scientists claims the opposite, you know I gotta go with the majority.

Science uses the scientific method, and peer review, etc., to establish validity. And unless the minority group can convince their peers that they (the minority) are right, then you have to go with the majority.

'Course the Jesus mongers will tell you it's God's loving breath that's warming the earth in preparation for the HELLFIRE THAT WILL COME DOWN UPON ALL YOU SINNERS, YOU EVIL LIBERALS, TREE HUGGERS, AND SODOMITES! GOD HATES YOU AND YOUR FREE LUNCHES FOR UNDERPRIVILEDGED CHILDREN AND YOUR UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE. HE HATES YOUR LABOR LAWS AND QUESTS FOR EQUITY.

Facts? we dont have to show you no stinking facts!

quote:

But the measuring method won't identify how to stop the water rising in your boat or what's causing it, it just tells you that you have a water problem.

The guy with the waterwheel points over the side to a sunken boat and says "those guys didn't have a waterwheel, so the waterwheel can't be the problem, it's just natural for boats to sink."

Everyone gets involved in measuring the water level all over the boat, and just as the boat sinks they finally come to a consensus.

in that strand of space time...

in another path some clever sci-fi writers in the back of the lifeboat pre-visualize such an eventuality and name it as joke 74a.

Not wanting to act out a joke (especially 74a) the people on the boat spontaneously agree that its time to stop drilling holes, plug up the existing ones, and bail out the boat.

As they sail on they wrestle with post apocalyptic conciousness and the loss of dark exemption... in a stark existential manner.
But it becomes much more of a lifeboat party than a sinking ship..

And if the vocal minority were to be the leaders in their field? Science isn't a democracy, it's not "most of us think this, therefore it must be true". I haven't got space for all the wrong, failed and downright stupid claims made by the 'majority' of scientists throughout history, but one is 'the earth is the centre of the universe'.

Ahh, if you reply with an inferrence that we know more these days? The ultimate hubris.. "they didnt know it all then and we do".

BTW, I think we should act as though the majority were right because it would be catastrophic for humans if they were correct, and if the vocal minority were correct, well.. the world wolud be a clener place anyway. yeah, I know... pass me that tree.. I need a hug.

the vocal minority are not the leaders in their fields. A large percentage of them are paid to voice the opinion they have by oil companies...

That sounds very plausible and I think you're correct but, just to play devils advocate...

1. what percentage are not leaders in their fields
2. how large.. 40%, 60%, more ?
3. is it just oil companies
4. what is the source of this information. from people who agree with the majority?

My point is that often we are all (myself included) too quick to believe the side which fits our world view.

I agree. The ones from the minority that are really important to listen to are the ones who aren't being paid to say what they say by oil companies.

btw: Did you see 'Nature' today.

they published a whole issue on the greenhouse effect. One article estimates there are already 150,000 people a year dying because of it.

This sounds a bit much to me.

Blame It On The Sun...

Sunspots. Wonder how reliable is the record before 1950....
Try tree rings instead. Or Antartic ice cores.
Those ice cores are so cool!