quote:

Originally posted by Liberals Are Losers®:

boog, No matter what, we can not get rid of the "Human Factor" and well.......us humans make mistakes from time to time.

...Ain't that a bitch?

$80+b for security, and the little monkey lets another one fly by...

Boog, that is just plane silly.

This incident had nothing to do with security.

lol@ "plane"

I know it "had nothig to do with security", other than exposing the fact that we've been either lied to, ripped off or both by those who'd have us believe that we are any safer whatsoever today than we were on 9/10/01.

quote:

Originally posted by boogerhead:
I know it "had nothig to do with security", other than exposing the fact that we've been either lied to, ripped off or both by those who'd have us believe that we are any safer whatsoever today than we were on 9/10/01.

Safer from Terrorism? - Maybe, maybe not

Safer from Accidents? - You are right, but I don't think the president has ever tried to sell that to anyone.

Has Fox pointed out that Lidle was a Democrat yet?

Where does your organic food come from?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Kradlum,

I don't think they ever claimed to be able to stop planes from hitting metro areas. Keep in mind Reagan airport is just a couple of minutes from the WH and there is no way they could take down a jetliner before it could hit its target. I think they have concentrated the security at the airports to keep people off the planes who shouldn't be there.

A well-nigh brilliant discussion of how white male supremacism, militarism, and fear combine to produce fascism, written by an ex-Special Forces vet.

quote:

Originally posted by Justy:
A well-nigh brilliant discussion of how white male supremacism, militarism, and fear combine to produce fascism, written by an ex-Special Forces vet.

He sounds kind of like Janus. Offhand though he doesn't sound wrong and his creds appear real. I would say that now most of the racial problems in the US today are rooted more in economic disparity (which has its basis in slavery) than in simple racism as he suggests.

Also I am not sure if this "revelation" about racism in the culture of the military is so surprising. Militaries have historically been the last refuge of conservative thought and violent behavior in every society they have been part of. In current times the US Military was somewhat of an aberration, a mixed race organization since the mid-fifties when lynchings were still common occurances in the American south. It would be a bit much to hope that they are now bastions of enlightened thought.

Edit, your last paragraph sets a tone that chills further discussion or even action. It says to me that "this is how militaries are and have always been" which has the implication that this is, first, natural, and second, unchangeable.

We only think the current situation is natural because it's been crammed down our throats for too long. Just because an organization is integrated (there were finally integrated combat units in the '50s; African Americans weren't even allowed *into* combat until WWII) doesn't mean there isn't racism.

Too much cynicism means, even if you protest, you're simply going to roll over. The central point I took from Mr. Goff's piece was that the sad thing is that what is going on *is* normative. That war crimes are part of the culture of the military (and, in no small part, part of the American culture) and it should make those of us who *are* sane sick and ready to do something.

I mean seriously. There was a teach-in at UCR, my old school, and the only people who showed up were over 45 or under 25. Where the fuck are we (the 25-45 year-olds)? How much injustice does there actually have to be? Or are we too beat-down, stuck between the cynical consumerism of the Reagan / Bush I years and whatever slim hope of progress existed during the first four years of Clinton's terms, you know, before the Republicans somehow faked that they were a minority?

I feel like adding: yeah, sure, Goff's piece seems old-hat. But we need to start paying attention, no matter how easy it seems to be to dismiss something with the "it's always been like that" statement. Point is: it shouldn't *be* like that.

quote:

Originally posted by Justy:
Edit, your last paragraph sets a tone that chills further discussion or even action. It says to me that "this is how militaries are and have always been" which has the implication that this is, first, natural, and second, unchangeable.

Good point, really I mean that armies tend to be comprised of folks whose outlook and beliefs are decidely different than those of the society they protect. We are perhaps near the end of a genuinely odd period where the military was the agent of social change (in the form of integration and social elevation) rather than resistant to it? It is difficult to see how we can expect the military to maintain the current liberal ideas of race and equality when the volunteers are largely from the poorest and least educated sections of our society. Maybe we are asking the wrong questions, maybe we shouldn't be asking, "How do these people get into the military?" but instead ask, "Why aren't there more people like me in the military?"

That is the question isn't it? Artificialintel put paid to that question when he joined the Army after 9/11, as I remember he said to me that he wanted someone sane to be in the army. So he went.

All the same, though, there's something bigger going on ideologically, and that has to do with the sort of hypermasculinity Goff is talking about.

Again, there's a whole lot of analysis left in the wind with this subject, but we need to pay attention to this stuff otherwise we'll wake up tomorrow (heck, today!) and wonder where the fuck we are.

President George W. Bush ... is to sign a bill into law on Tuesday that allows tough interrogation and prosecution of terrorism suspects. Well, if it can be applied to anyone and ends up helping to keep government actions accountable, bravo.
"Mistakes? We don't make mistakes."

Hasn't he sat on this bill for a few weeks?

quote:

At a ceremony in Washington, Mr Bush said it was a rare occasion when a president signed a law that he knew would save American lives.

Maybe he should read some of the other bills he signs?

quote:

"These military commissions will provide a fair trial in which the accused are presumed innocent, have access to an attorney, and can hear all the evidence against them. These military commissions are lawful, they are fair, and they are necessary."

Except that they can't see all the evidence against them George, maybe you should have read this bill before you signed it too:

quote:

At the tribunals, defendants will be allowed to see some - but not necessarily all - of the evidence against them.

quote:

Originally posted by Kradlum:
George, maybe you should have read this bill before you signed it too:

to be fair, it does have a lot of big words.

"...We all envy him".
Godamn bastard.

quote:

A Kremlin spokesman admitted Mr Putin made a joke, but said it was not meant to be overheard.

He understands this doesn't make it better right?

and I thought Tony Snow had the toughest spokesperson gig!

this only supports my theory that politicians will only succeed if they're entirely morally corrupt. The more depraved they are, the higher they will rise.

Only the sick rule.

Oh no!!!