It might not be relevant but I just wanted to say:

"What's the frequency kenmeer".

*sorry*

If you hadn't said it, I was gonna.

quote:

Originally posted by limbojim:
It might not be relevant but I just wanted to say:

"What's the frequency kenmeer".

*sorry*

Not sure but it's definitely on the right side of the dial. You *were* talking about Hillary, right?

quote:

Originally posted by kenmeer livermaile:

quote:

Originally posted by limbojim:
It might not be relevant but I just wanted to say:

"What's the frequency kenmeer".

*sorry*

Not sure but it's definitely on the right side of the dial. You *were* talking about Hillary, right?

See, there's the problem right there. Politcos still think in term of dials when everyone else is using a remote. it refelcts a basic lack of understanding for 21st century advertising.

Having grown up in Chicago, seeing politics at a grassroots level, and having my eyes opened at the '68 Dem. convention, maybe I'm just too jaded to feel any kind of optimism when it comes to politics.

Just cannot help it. I think we are all screwed.

Don't think it matters on either side of the aisle. We are screwed, blued and tattooed.

>>Nonsense. Nations form because of cultural similarities, geographic practicalities and a common sense realization that there is 'us' and 'them' and the only way to protect 'us' and to get the best lifestyle possible is by standing together.
And war, and having sex together, and wanting to make others behave in particular ways.

>>No regime, even a benevolent and democratic one could comply to that demand and retain credibility, yet the U.S. just accepted that as being uncooperative. Anyone who studied the First World War should be familiar with that particular technique.
Can we get a thread-jack on that?

quote:

Having grown up in Chicago, seeing politics at a grassroots level, and having my eyes opened at the '68 Dem. convention, maybe I'm just too jaded to feel any kind of optimism when it comes to politics.

Just cannot help it. I think we are all screwed.

Don't think it matters on either side of the aisle. We are screwed, blued and tattooed.

I was 12 years old in '68. Dad was a firefighter in Chicago's near South Side by U of C. (We lived NW in Albany Park, heavily Jewish neighborhood.)

S&W horizons glowed building-fire red for several days after MLK died. I remember examining Dad's riot gear: visored helmet, truncheon [!UsageALert!], plexiglass shield. He was pro-establishment and way anti-hippy at the time. Of MLK, he said, "Had it coming stirring up trouble like that." His standard terms for Negro persons were 'spook' & 'rughead'.

And yet... he watched Carter campaign on TV and said, "The country NEEDS this man."

He also watched Reagan campaign four years later and said what I still think is the most trenchant observation of Ronnie ever:

"That guy scares me. That son of a bitch really believes the shit comes out of his mouth."

(Method acting?)

So my attitude toward political developments of the day is rather like Gib's toward emerging tech.

Personally, I think we'll survive Bush and the PNAC Orcs. I think they will serve more good, in time, than bad: folks will eventually look at what happened and go, "Eww.Ick."

The Big Secret: 'mer'cans really BELIEVE that bullshit about being free members of a genuinely representative republican democracy. People cherish their illusions. By the time Double-Ought has throughly shattered those illusions, they'll be more awake than before.

And that's good.

Worst comes to worst, I remind myself how enlightened a nation Germany has become as a result of their century of authoritarianism that peaked with Hitler.

And hey, nothing's easy. Freedom, they say, is a constant struggle.

quote:

Politcos still think in term of dials when everyone else is using a remote.

What's the *channel*, uberdog?

Ever notice the logical progression from fights over the remote to pillowfights?

Vive la revolucion! Coming this fall on The Whatever Channel!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: kenmeer livermaile,

Vividly illustrated observations, KL.

Germany and your Dad are my basis for hope.

And maybe, also, Obama.

quote:

Originally posted by kenmeer livermaile:
I think Obama is positioning himself well for the seemingly inevitable shouting match with Iran. He has a firm grip on the Big Stick one is popularly expected to wield when Talking Softly.

quote:

And maybe, also, Obama.

I bark at your dog!!!

I just wanted to say that.

If any site welcomes Dada, this must be duh place.

Roof!!! Roof!!! Roof!!!

Great Dad story from that time and relevance.

He was fond of the cliche, concerning Negroes of the day, that "You never hear about the *good* ones." (Yeah, ouch. Some of my best friends are bigots.)

But through the Equal Op laws, this big black dude named Dudley got on the force. Good fireman. Dad respected that and accepted Dudley as one of them.

Union meeting. All these 60's white socks'n'crewcut white guys in an auditorium. Dudley enters and walks slowly down the aisle. In my Dad's probably exaggerated description, he was a big black face full of two wide-open scared eyes.

Anyway, Dad stands up, turns around, and hollers, "SOUL BROTHER!!!"

Baby steps, y'all.

quote:

what I still think is the most trenchant observation

I meant 'truncheont'.

quote:

Roof!!! Roof!!! Roof!!!

Down boy! Dada is one thing, but I draw the line at leg-humping.

But man, if your Dad was a firefighter that explains a lot. What is it with firefighters and racism?

Wow, kenmeer, I just went back and read something I had missed earlier.

My father was a Chicago fireman too. (seriously weirding me out)
I was 17 yrs old during the convention. I believe my dad was stationed at the house across the street from the Cabrini Green projects at that time. He would have been off the engine and working as a "paramedic" by then.

Very strange indeed to meet someone on the board who has such a similar background.
I've got at least one cousin still on the job back in Chicago. Although he's doing building inspection now.

Cousin Andy sent me a copy of the Sun-Times with a photo on the cover of the dedication of the memorial to the fallen Chi. firefighters. My dad's name is in the photo.

I came away from my experiences with a different point of view. I am more pessimistic in my assessment of how things are going.

I've gotten to know some family members of prominent local Republican party members, and I'm told that long time Rep.s are appalled at what these guys in Washington are doing. And yet they are just as powerless to change the course of things as the rest of us.

Bush and Co. are breaking all the rules and making up new ones and getting away with it. The only thing that worries me more than a theoretical third term for boy George, is any term at all for Romney. I think he will pack the courts with Mormons. I think he will pack everything with Mormons and their "friends".

That's not just a blind prejudice. It's the voice of reading and studying their history. I think they are the second most dangerous cult in the world today.

And if Tom Cruise ever runs for office and wins, I might just eat my gun.

In summary I have lost whatever faith I had in the bulk of humanity's ability to intelligently run it's affairs. Things have gotten too weird. We don't have a united country anymore. We have a loose knit pack of competing and often hostile interest groups, all trying to use the others for different purposes.

Maybe I'm just old and pessimistic. Or, maybe my eyes have seen too much.

More weirdness, limbo. I was raised Mormon. (Very different being a Mormon in Chicago than in Utah.)

Actually, if Romney got the office and packed it with Mormons, it would likely be an improvement over the current gang. Indeed, part of Mormon folklore is the oft-recited belief that the USA constitution "will hang as if by a thread" and the Mormon elders will restore it.

More weirdness. Dad almost died on duty. Massive heart attack after running up I forget how many flights of stairs with all that garb/equipment weight they haul.

Had a near death experience in hospital. Came out, and my Pall Mall smoking, cussing, formerly hard-drinking Irish Catholic Dad joined my mother in Mormonism. (Oy, she was so happy made you want to kill a pig.)

He died in '99, a devout Mormon.

In 1860, we were a rude nation of mostly ignorant bigoted souls. Fought a horrendous war to rid ourselves of our worst practices, and established vast new laws to repeal them in perpetuity.

My concern with Romney isn't that he'll pack the cabinet with LDS, but that he'll prove to be as lost and vacillating a stature-seeker as ever. He's like the Republican Clinton. Seriously in love with his own reflection. Seeing the world through a reflection of your eyes makes for a seriously warped vision.

FDR was an arrogant schmuck. But the times he was in pushed for enlightened reform, just like England experienced reform despite the likes of Churchill and his Tory predecessors.

I believe that, beginning with Reagan, they could push the other way because we as a nation had it so good. Had there been a massive depression followed by a globe-curdling war, they would have leaned more towards New Dealism than not, I think.

Bush is less like Hitler and more like Bismark -- but obviously, without Bismark's grasp of georealpolitk. He and his ilk wouldn't mind a bit of kulturkampf (sp?) and a vigorous reclamation of old-school colonialism.

But they haven't a clue to bring it about. From No Child Left Behind to the Great Awakening they claim to be promoting in the Middle East, it's all tumbling down.

As for how appalled Republicans will reform their party, and, far more statistically massive, appalled 'independents' will reform their country? They'll cross lines and vote for a Democrat (unless it's Hillary, god help us, in which case Dems will get the independents but the appalled Reps might line up for the Rep candidate just to oppose la Hill). McCain, Giuliani: DOA. Newt? Public masturbation. Ron Paul? Too honest. It's most likely Romney, and while he satisfy many of them, enough will see him for the Clinton-lite that he is that they'll vote for the reliable opposition, so long as it's Edwards or Obama.

And of course, I'm probably all wrong, but pessimism is *such* a drag, and I have health issues alone to make me want to jump off a cliff (google HHT, hereditary hemorrhagic telengectsia, for an idea) to waste perfectly good despair on the likes of Bubble Boy and his crew of Slithereens.

I mean, who'da thunk Nixon would be impeached? For a lousy burglar riff? Or that a guy named Ellsberg would leak the Pentagon papers?

Comforting thought: another Mormon mantra is that 'no man knoweth the hour or the time' (when jesus will return in a hololasered heavenly spectacular). Sure, idjut LDS authorities will say things here and there like, "There are those alive now who will see the return", but that's just grist for the heavenly rumor mill.

Mormons don't scare me nearly as much as reformed Presbyterians and, of course, that dire old Southern Baptist Convention (which also seems to be snapping out of the worst of its fever dreams now that it's had a taste of success and the accountability that follows).

This message has been edited. Last edited by: kenmeer livermaile,

quote:

I draw the line at leg-humping

My dearest dead friend Charles Stephen Ponderslife , were he alive today to plague the internets, would almost certainly use as a sig: 'And now, as I bid you adieu, I breathe fondly on your ankles.'

Relax, I've had a vasectomy.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: kenmeer livermaile,

Waiver: I am not US citizen, so I shall stay out of it from now on.
I just think that charisma is overrated, and that a woman should win. OK?

"Clinton says negatives won't keep her from winning
Reuters
By Kay Henderson Reuters - 19 minutes ago

DES MOINES, Iowa (Reuters) - Democratic presidential front-runner Hillary Clinton acknowledged on Sunday that many voters do not like her, but she blamed it on years of Republican attacks and insisted she has a record of winning despite her negatives.

Clinton's remarks came as the eight candidates for the Democratic presidential nomination debated in the critical early voting state of Iowa and just days after President George W. Bush's political adviser Karl Rove said the former first lady was flawed for having high negative ratings.

Clinton and top rival, Illinois Sen. Barack Obama, came under fire early in the debate at Drake University when other candidates were invited to comment on their perceived weaknesses -- Clinton's high negative ratings in the polls and Obama's inexperience in foreign policy.

"I don't think Karl Rove's going to endorse me," Clinton told the audience at the debate, which was aired by ABC News' "This Week" program. "But I find it interesting he's so obsessed with me. And I think the reason is because we know how to win."

She tackled the issue of her high negative ratings head-on, saying, "The idea that you're going to escape the Republican attack machine and not have high negatives by the time they're through with you, I think, is just missing what's been going on in American politics for the last 20 years."

Polls have shown Clinton holding double-digit leads over Obama in their effort to be the Democratic candidate in the November 2008 election.

But a recent CBS News poll showed 39 percent of all voters nationwide had an unfavourable view of Clinton, while only 20 percent viewed Obama negatively. Other polls have had Clinton's negative rating even higher.

Obama, who had a narrow lead in ABC News' Iowa poll, was criticized for his recent comments on foreign policy, including saying he would meet with U.S. rivals without preconditions and suggesting he might authorize attacks inside Pakistan without that country's permission.

"The only person that separates us from a jihadist government in Pakistan with nuclear weapons is President (Pervez) Musharraf," said Sen. Chris Dodd of Connecticut. "I thought it was irresponsible to engage in that kind of a suggestion here."

Clinton said she thought Obama was wrong in saying he was willing to meet without preconditions in his first year in office with U.S. adversaries such as Iran.

Obama dismissed much of the criticism as political manoeuvring and quipped "to prepare for this debate, I rode in the bumper cars at the state fair." But he tried to paint Clinton's criticism as outdated thinking.

"I do think that there's a substantive difference between myself and Senator Clinton when it comes to meeting with our adversaries," he added. "I think that strong countries and strong presidents meet and talk with our adversaries. We shouldn't be afraid to do so. We've tried the other way. It didn't work."

Asked about the recent turbulence in the financial markets as a result of the crisis over subprime mortgage lending, most candidates applauded the Federal Reserve for lowering interest rates for banks but called for steps to protect those facing the loss of their homes.

New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson called the crisis the "Katrina of the mortgage-lending industry," comparing it to the hurricane that devastated New Orleans. He, Delaware Sen. Joseph Biden and others called for greater transparency and regulation of hedge funds, which are playing a role in the crisis.

The candidates clashed over ending the Iraq war, Richardson arguing all U.S. forces should be removed and others cautioning that withdrawal from Iraq would be messy, difficult and time-consuming.

"We have different positions here," Richardson said. "I believe that if you leave any residual forces, then none of the peace that we are trying to bring can happen."

Former North Carolina Sen. John Edwards said withdrawing U.S. troops would be difficult to do quickly, but "I think we can responsibly and in a very orderly way bring our troops out over the next nine or 10 months."

carumba!

It's good to know you've been vasectomized. I don't need any more pregnant shoes.

I'll be researching HHT and hopefully making some kind of intelligent reply late tonight after work.

Running out of time right now, gotta eat and shower etc. and go.

Later dude.

quote:

limbojim:
And if Tom Cruise ever runs for office and wins, I might just eat my gun.

If that ever happens, save a bullet for me.

quote:

My father was a Chicago fireman too. (seriously weirding me out)
I was 17 yrs old during the convention. I believe my dad was stationed at the house across the street from the Cabrini Green projects at that time. He would have been off the engine and working as a "paramedic" by then.

I wouldn't have wanted to be across the street from Cabrini Green that night (massive understatement). Did you know they just tore it down a few years ago?

quote:

kenmeer livermaire:
And of course, I'm probably all wrong, but pessimism is *such* a drag, and I have health issues alone to make me want to jump off a cliff (google HHT, hereditary hemorrhagic telengectsia, for an idea) to waste perfectly good despair on the likes of Bubble Boy and his crew of Slithereens.

Thanks for the reminder, death doesn't need any help. If not Dum spiro, spero, then "No hope, no fear."

quote:

Aisha:
Waiver: I am not US citizen, so I shall stay out of it from now on.

As they say, All roads lead to Rome. The way things are going, Aisha, I think everyone has a right to voice their opinion on US politics. At least until we start minding our own business, here on this side of the pond.

I have more to say about the Clinton/Obama dichotomy, but I have to collect my thoughts. I'm pretty agnostic so far, but I do have one or two thoughts.