BERLIN, Germany (AP) -- Germany's top security officials said Friday they consider the goals of the Church of Scientology to be in conflict with the principles of the nation's constitution and will seek to ban the organization.
The interior ministers of the nation's 16 states plan to give the nation's domestic intelligence agency the task of preparing the necessary information to ban the organization, which has been under observation for a decade on allegations that it "threatens the peaceful democratic order" of the country.

The ministers, as well as federal Interior Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble, "consider Scientology to be an organization that is not compatible with the constitution," said Berlin Interior Minister Ehrhart Koerting, who presided over the officials' two-day conference.

Sabine Weber, president of the Church of Scientology in Berlin, said she views the renewed attempt to ban the organization as a reaction to increasing acceptance of Scientologists in several European countries.

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On one hand, it's distressing to see Germany beingf reactionary toward a specific group of people again. On the other, perhaps the very fact of the Nazi era makes them so watchful.

But I am alwyas happy to see idiots persecuted, I must admit.

I really dislike the institution and find joy whenever one of their ilk makes an ass of himself.

In princiapl the position of the governement seems initially wrong from a freedom of religion standpoint, but then, they have valid points about the goals of the group.

They are a cult, a dangerous one at that. i don't care if they have the umbrella of "religion" haloed around themselves legally in the United States or not.

The fuckers are deeply paranoid, controlling and duplicitous. Which might actually commend them in my book in some ways if they weren't equally obtuse, delusional and outright silly.

I have less than no respect for them as a group.

Hard to say where I stand on the officiation of that postion by a governemnt though.

Germany doesn't regard this ban as a supression of religion, because they say it isn't a religion, it's a business (and a con job)and I have no argument with that. Hubbard may have actually believed in Scientology, but his creation of the Church of Scientology was a totally bogus tax dodge. Back in the 80s they used to throw great parties at Worldcons and invite all the pros. Usually the hostess was a gorgeous German babe whose name I forget (Ingrid? Gretchen?) One year she wasn't there and I asked why. A world-weary pro told me, "She was sent back for reprogramming."

They sponsored the Writers of the Future program, which I always thought was a wonderful idea and I wish somebody else had thought of it first. Once, on a sweltering Worldcon afternoon, Brad Sinor told me there was a Writers of the Future party going on and they had a full ice cream bar where you could build your own sundaes. I said, full of haughty scorn, "That's the Scientologists. I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. I bet they don't have hot fudge, anyway." Brad said, "They have a big pot of hot fudge." I thought, they got hot fudge? God, I'm cheap!

L-Ron also wanted to start a war with the FBI as I recall.

Heh.

On Queen Street today, there were a few tables and a coupla guys offering a free "stress test."

If I had the money to afford a lawsuit, I would've loved to go over and give 'em a piece of my mind.

Jinx dude - I passed the same table (while looking for my bike - hey, maybe a stress test wasn't such a bad idea) and had the same reaction.

Perhaps helped by the fact that just before Suzie met me she was sucked in by them and paid $1400 she could ill afford (about to go back to college) for 'auditing' that they alleged would help her study.

That auditing stuff is awesome, helps you come to terms with your past life traumas and gets you closer to regressing to the galactic ethereal inchoates that we all beagn as!

They have a Church of Scientology office and Stress Tests on the street where I work. It's been there at least 20 years, since I was a student. They were banned from stopping people in the street for a many years by Camden Council, but it seems either the ban has lapsed or they got it overturned.

Cool, now the rest of the world has to do this

When the fuck is Xenu coming already! Fucking Aliens take their god damn time to conqure the universe. Hurry up and get these freaking alien souls out of our volcanoes!

Now Cruise and Travolta will feel like poor martyrs

quote:

Originally posted by Kradlum:
They have a Church of Scientology office and Stress Tests on the street where I work. It's been there at least 20 years, since I was a student. They were banned from stopping people in the street for a many years by Camden Council, but it seems either the ban has lapsed or they got it overturned.

they periodically set up a table to do the tests in glasgow. and i saw the same set up in oslo when i was there.

Pay 'em no attention. Unless they offer hot fudge sundaes.

I've never encountered them in real life. Instead, at the UW, we get La Rouche kids: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ciscel/874949457/

Damn, you know what would be perversely funny? Have the Scientologists set up a table next to the LaRouche kids, watch the sparks fly.

quote:

Originally posted by John Maddox Roberts:
Pay 'em no attention. Unless they offer hot fudge sundaes.

Run like hell if Tom Cruise himself offers you a "hot" "fudge" "sundae".

Unless you're into that sorta thing.

I live right across Tampa Bay from Clearwater Florida and the Scientology world HQ. It can be a bit ...odd. With occasional accusations of the church bullying local critics and influencing politics they mostly stay quiet. They go after the wealthy and business owners to try to convert them by helping them with their business. Sounds like a con job but since the folks paying the money rarely complain they are accepted by most locals.

Banning a religion because the government doesn't agree with it sounds like one of those things the US government would be blasted for if they tried it though.

quote:

Banning a religion because the government doesn't agree with it sounds like one of those things the US government would be blasted for if they tried it though.

exactly, and I think it's kind of a useful thought experiment to say 'these guys are irrational' when say, being a christian democrat is rational?

I mean is the reason scientology gobbledegook isn't allowed because older gobbledegook like that guy who walked on water is more rational?

quote:

Originally posted by greendreams:

quote:

Banning a religion because the government doesn't agree with it sounds like one of those things the US government would be blasted for if they tried it though.

exactly, and I think it's kind of a useful thought experiment to say 'these guys are irrational' when say, being a christian democrat is rational?

I mean is the reason scientology gobbledegook isn't allowed because older gobbledegook like that guy who walked on water is more rational?

The issue is not what is rational or not, I think. The issue is that when a religion's main aim becomes to make money and when a religion starts messing with state matters, then it should lose its religious status (including the tax benefits that come with it) and be considered a for-profit, special-interest, entity.

Or better yet a Corporation

I got a tingly Syndicate Wars type feeling when I said that (look up Syndicate/Syndicate Wars if you have no idea). Maybe not a good idea to give them ideas, we don't want them blowing up things because they look like Xenu.