It seems to me that California has effectively legislated discrimination into their constitution. This is rather appalling to me.

Anyone else have thoughts?

I am extremely depressed about Prop. 8. But there is good news, not that it's gotten any coverage at all (maybe because it all happened pretty fast, or because it was kind of a foregone conclusion), which is that my state of Connecticut voted not to change our Constitution, and thus voted to keep gay marriage here.

So if any of you are gay Californians and feel like settling down, come to CT!

[paid for by the Connecticut Tourism Board]

While I don't really know the details, I understand that the "Yes on Prop. 8" campaign was, first, really dirty (outright lies), second, funded by the Mormons, and third, ended up coming down to religious lines. People often voted what their pastor told them.

But, yes, ugh.

Helping with the "Repeal Prop. 8" movement will be good. The prognosis from my family who live out there is that as the younger generation starts establishing itself, this will shift.

fivethirtyeight.com with the level head, as usual.

I was rather surprised and disappointed by the result. I thought it would be an easy measure to defeat. I guess my close proximity to San Fran has warped my brain. (Mind you, there were a couple of houses with "Yes on 8" signs in our neighborhood.)

Consolation prize for the religious right?

quote:

Originally posted by Justy:
While I don't really know the details, I understand that the "Yes on Prop. 8" campaign was, first, really dirty (outright lies), second, funded by the Mormons, and third, ended up coming down to religious lines. People often voted what their pastor told them.

But, yes, ugh.

Helping with the "Repeal Prop. 8" movement will be good. The prognosis from my family who live out there is that as the younger generation starts establishing itself, this will shift.

Dan Savage suggested that the old people dying would cause it to self correct.

quote:

Originally posted by colin:
I was rather surprised and disappointed by the result. I thought it would be an easy measure to defeat. I guess my close proximity to San Fran has warped my brain. (Mind you, there were a couple of houses with "Yes on 8" signs in our neighborhood.)

[whispers] They make gay there, Colin. Gaaaay....[/whispers}

quote:

Originally posted by UberDog:
It seems to me that California has effectively legislated discrimination into their constitution. This is rather appalling to me.

Yeah, this is totally gay.

Laugh out loud.

Well, really, I only smiled. But it was sincere.

When people feel powerless it tends to express its unsatisfaction through "moralist" actions (harassing gays is a good example of "Christian moralist" action).

"Grow your your penis 1-3 inches and make her happy!

For a limited time, order a three month supply and get a free "Ban gay Marriage" bumper sticker and a Glock 22!!"

quote:

Originally posted by cb4(r2)3t0:
When people feel powerless it tends to express its unsatisfaction through "moralist" actions (harassing gays is a good example of "Christian moralist" action).

I rather think it's a function of the collective unconscious of America responding to the end of empire-nagging-intuition int he back of its mind. Empires often tend to get all militant about things inside the empire which they think they can control while the sunset of its zenith is visible as an intimating shadow. The Romans had such freakouts as I recall. certainly the Maya did.

Later Victorianism was all about trying to control sexual urges of one sort or another. There is some tie, in my mind, between the inevitability of one's glory days passing and the lack of control we have over our primal urges.

Both need surrogate channels to be expiated.

Wars and family values are ours.

quote:

Originally posted by TwiliteMinotaur:
"Grow your your penis 1-3 inches and make her happy!

For a limited time, order a three month supply and get a free "Ban gay Marriage" bumper sticker and a Glock 22!!"

GLLLLOOOOOOOOCKKKK!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by UberDog:

quote:

Originally posted by Justy:
While I don't really know the details, I understand that the "Yes on Prop. 8" campaign was, first, really dirty (outright lies), second, funded by the Mormons, and third, ended up coming down to religious lines. People often voted what their pastor told them.

But, yes, ugh.

Helping with the "Repeal Prop. 8" movement will be good. The prognosis from my family who live out there is that as the younger generation starts establishing itself, this will shift.

Dan Savage suggested that the old people dying would cause it to self correct.

Well, both, really. Dan Savage has that talent for saying what we think but don't want to say.

My friend and I were saying the same thing a few nights before in relation to the Prop. Old people are holding the country back.

Your time is over! Be quiet or be dead!

If only we boomers had taken seriously our own motto:

Don't Trust Anyone Over Thirty

Considering that the first boomers were born in '45, this would explain why disco took over around '77, why C.J.McCall and cowboys and CB radio were major fads, why Reagan won in a landslide in 1980, and why yuppies were such fantastically vile scum of the suburban earth.

Lookit what Gibson did: took away our rockets and gave us video games. Bastard was, like, 36 when Neuro came out.

noir prophet indeed.

Gen X reaches 35 and what do THEY do? Let Bush come into office.

The Moral of the Story: by the time the next generation gets around to doing what they claim is right, they're too old and corrupted to do it right.

Gay rights, BTW, were born in 1969 (a sexually auspicious year in terms of numerology). It's not the generation or the age of its members, but the age of The Meme. Ripples take time to expand the breadth of the pond. By the time they have, people forget it's a ripple, and just think it's water.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: kenmeer livermaile,

I think any church that had anything at all to do with this ought to be forced to pay all the back taxes on whatever property they reside upon.

quote:

I rather think it's a function of the collective unconscious of America responding to the end of empire-nagging-intuition int he back of its mind. Empires often tend to get all militant about things inside the empire which they think they can control while the sunset of its zenith is visible as an intimating shadow. The Romans had such freakouts as I recall. certainly the Maya did.

Later Victorianism was all about trying to control sexual urges of one sort or another. There is some tie, in my mind, between the inevitability of one's glory days passing and the lack of control we have over our primal urges.

Both need surrogate channels to be expiated.

Wars and family values are ours.

Well, I think the raw premise is valid but your specifics aren't.

War and family values and oppression/repression of homosexuality are as old as the Revolutionary War in our culture.

I think your premise would be wiser to focus on waning empires' inability to maintain their former fetishes and taboos:

we can't fight a decent war anymore despite our amazing martial superiority; one of the strongest quid pro quo arguments for allowing gay marriage is that traditional marriage fails, what, 50% of the time; and Christ missed the memo on the Second Millennial Second Coming.

Wagner, said Debussy, was a wonderful sunset that had been mistaken for a dawn. As the sun seems to set on the American empire, we are actually closer to fully realizing the charter of our Declaration of Independence than ever. We're most of the way there.

But even as the sun appears to be mounting the horizon with uncommon vigor, we realize it's an illusion: the ship is sinking.

And so Leftists' rally cry features things like gay and abortion rights and gun control; the Rightists' rally cry is family, patriotism, freedom, and the power of good ol,d days that never were: and folks in the center notice that the deck appears to be completing the severance begun in the hull, that the coal is almost gone, the engines are seizing, and the rats are uncommonly active. (Note: I ain't prophesying the end of America, just the end of the American Empire, whose demise is clearly evident to anyone paying objective attention.)

Glock! Glock! Glock!