Hey Torq what are you shooting with and editing on?
Also more about the watermarking software please.

Gil:
Heck I currently live in Montreal, all kinds of Europeanish stuff going on.

As for actors I agree we would need a set cast. However I think that if you stick with the theme there is much to be filmed sans people. Using the book as a tentative guide it mentions the long beach pans (like, but not, Cannes) in the winter.

Regarding rendering, the director of Sky Captain spent 6 years creating 6 minutes on his personal mac so yeah, rendering is probably out.
That doesn't mean that bits and pieces can't be incorporated in the background and so forth. I think shooting digitally would be a must to achieve a sameness that applies accross all footage.

I think that footage should only be uploaded as full size uncompressed files. At lengths of a minute, the file size is not prohibative with growing cable/dsl penatration (esp. in places like South Korea). Even downloads using 56k are possible using software that allows resuming.

Sorry my mistake, a 1 minute uncompressed file could be 1GB+ in size. Hmmm. Two copies? Copy one compressed as little as possible to make under 250 MB, copy 2 compressed down to 25 MB?

Basically I'm posting things as they come to me and a little bit by relavance. Later on we can always work out exactly what we're shooitng for, right now I'm just trying to hash out the basics.

Quick guide to shooting/editing:

ETA: Typos; Flow; Link; Last three paragraphs.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Electric Monk,

I believe Torq mentioned mpeg.

I've never been in Montreal, but have observed it in various movies. Some of the buildings have a very Europeanish feel, I agree, and, unless I'm mistaken, cobbled streets in some areas.

The store occupancy of uncompressed video is vast. We'd almost certainly have to supply compressed to the end user, and would have to ration ourselves on the Work-in-Progress.

I went round this loop when I thought about F:F:F the first time. That's partly why I settled on still pictures. The kind of domain an amateur project like this can afford without a dedicated server isn't going to have multiGigs of webspace, and a couple of downloads would use up a month's bandwidth.

I think we're going to have to cut our cloth somewhat. This little piece of looped video lasts about 50 seconds; is 200x150 px; started life as mpeg, but I converted it into Flash swf; and the file is just 736Kb in size. The quality is revolting, but it might be less so if I hadn't been driving one-handed, filming with the other using a Mavica still camera! A tripod, and a scene that was much more still would probably look much better.

Well let's not have a centralized website in that respect. Say we post it on a couple of free movie websites (There's a number out there) as downloads and bittorrent links with framegrabs from the clip to give an idea of what is being downloaded. Possibly a central board out there directing people towards the websites and bittorrent.

Very large and fairly fast external firewire drives are becoming relativily cheap.
This drive has 1 TB (at 7200 RPM)designed for multiple uncompressed video streams for a grand. More then we'd need, but a 250GB version runs a little under 300 USD. There's probably better deals out there too.

A few cobbled streets, some of them even near European artichetured buildings. Of course you're in the UK (although I have no idea where), there's lots of old articheture around.

He mentioned mpeg but that's only the file format. I was curious about what camera and computer rig he was shooting and editing on.

ETA: Second paragraph

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Electric Monk,

I cannot reveal the details of the shooting. That would be no fun!

This is why no one should get excited or interested about my supposed footage project until it is actually released, if that ever ends up happening.

check out the following web pages- I posted some exterior images and a few interiors that could be played iwth as part of a story line:

footage 1footage 2

they are euro locations- switzerland and belfast.

I like the "icebridge" concept of pieces coming together and apart as a mosaic and maybe it is simpler to think of blending still exteriors with mpeg interiors just to start. the id stuff in the stills can be photoshopped out and we can use dissolves and other tools to impart some "movement" to the stills. zooming until extreme pixelation on some of the people in the exteriors could allow transition to actors walking or footage of "real people" walking in similar scenes. I like the idea of capturing compelling moments that are everyday stuff really- interactions of folks in cafe's, couples in the streets and creating kind of footage splinters that may not be a coherent whole, but capture people's interest and reach them in some visceral way- even that may be too much to expect, but it would be fun and interesting to try it- especially as a group collaborative project.

there is some live streaming video of Trafalgar Square and other street scenes in Europe if we can capture it and modfify it. doing that would have the kind of reality based root that PR footage had, be low production demand and could still be an interesting footage experiment

I like the single editor at a time idea and then review by a larger group to accept or edit again. the risk is that folks could put a lot of time in with the potential for no reward- ti might be better to have the kind of "forks in the road" of different versions and then those that get picked up and developed more can just evolve to be bigger. that gives everyoen a chance to have their work displayed, but still allows the work that appeals to others in the group to take on another dimension. it would be interesting too to have different branches of the same images developed- much more interesting than the generally vapid "alternative ending"of hollywood dvds etc

what say? shall we start this and where should we put it?

l.e.d.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: lite_emitting_dee,

A potential Nouveau Footage Fan here: I loved the sea shots, the city skylines - did not like the pub shots-- arent they datable? Or maybe actually not, as pubs have stayed the same forever.

Anyway, interesting.

Aisha

Three points:
1. I like the way this is developing. I think we need more participants to make it really rock, but it's going in the right direction, and there's a pool of people I can get interested who don't subscribe to WGB.
2. This is a bad moment for me. I've got a contract on for the next couple of weeks that's very immersive, so while I'll have time to look in on this thread, I won't have time to set up a new site for us to work from, or even, most of the time, to reply to posts. If we base ourselves here until I am more free again, I'll catch up when I get back.
3. Much of the time I, and others who'd like to participate, work from behind a corporate firewall, which won't allow contact with the big movie-share sites (including whatever LED is using). I would favour setting up multiple, fairly anonymous, free websites - perhaps one per clip - and indexing them from a central communications site.

Quick addendum:
Yes. Used my dial-up to look at LED's footage and thought I recognised Geneva immediately - Pont de la Machine? That building on the bridge was mentioned in a book I read recently - what was that book? Never mind.
Oh, and yes, geocities is known by our firewall to be EVIL, as are any websites with the letters "webmail" or "gmail" in them (EVIL, WORK OF THE DEVIL, BLASPHEMOUS), so that I now have to do my email collection on dial-up. Silly.

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it might be better to have the kind of "forks in the road" of different versions and then those that get picked up and developed more can just evolve to be bigger. lite_emitting_dee

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I like that. You could easily start with the same base and wind up with something completly or subtly different and it would be just as intersting.

Have to say some of the photos did indeed reveal where they were, however they're editable so we can remove any indications of where they are.

Too bad about the firewall, can't get around it?

I see no problem basing ourselves here for a while. Free and movie sites to post the clips seem the way to go, while we'd have a password locked ftp server with the original's and various forks so people could work on them.
My idea about that would be that, when someone is ready to release a clip, we do so, and delete that fork from our website (and harddrives) so it exists only free on the net.

I can get round the firewall by dial-up, but, frankly it's so slow, and I'm reluctant to spend money on Broadband when most of my browsing is done via the VERY FAST connection I have at work, which is not very restrictive except in the areas I've mentioned.

My location is fairly close to London, in Farnham, and I work part of the time in West London, but, frankly, there's not a lot left of Olde Englande in this neck of the woods.

Oh, and, forgot to say, LED, that I liked the scenes. It's so easy to appear to dismiss something because you have a single comment to make.

In fact, I think that they are just the sort of thing WG was thinking about.

And, following on from your mention of IceBridge, a bit of apparent CAM footage (as opposed to artistic footage) may well be a good component.

And image maps could be used to move from location to location. People forget about image maps these days. I know I do.

And then there's Flash. This snippet here is less than 80Kb. It is three stills, but animation is implied by the moving cross-hairs and the navigation numbers. This was a mockup for the AirInMotion website that was never used, but it didn't take long to do.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: gil,

i agree we can modify to make the areas not as identifiable, either by zooming the picture or photoshopping it to change some details, etc. mainly i just wanted to see if this type of thing worked for folks as part of the idea and it seems that it does.

i'll let someone else deal with the technical issues of where to put it. i just used geocities coz it was free- can go anywhere we can access it best. i have to do this from slow home dial up- no good to use fast connection at work, but am thinking about dsl for home coz i will be there more soon to do work for a while.

we can probably use the "display image" option here for stills or just give direct links to the sites where we find stuff. for instance, all the geneva images are off of geneva images
there are webcams there too, as well as an mpeg file with a sunrise that could be part of some footage- i just couldn't put it up on geocities becuase it wouldn't take it for an upload (maybe my technical limitations tho).

i like the various options, like using flash, as well as integrating digital "artistic footage" as suggested above. i like the idea of going to the local university and recruiting some drama students for snippets that can be part of the footage.

i don't think these pieces need to be long- just interesting in some way. just like in PR. they don't even need to be coherent in terms of story line either, although it would be really interesting to do small pieces that added up to something larger, maybe put out in random sequence and let people try and put it together. or even more creative to put just pieces out there and let folks try to assemble them- see what they come up with- there could be some very intriguing options.

so i'd be up for gathering pieces and trying to see what will emerge. i'll keep looking for webcam stuff and images that might work. what sites can we use for putting up mpeg or other movies?

l.e.d.

Yes, I liked the drama student idea. And Webcams. While I´m away from my base and using cybercafes, I´m re-reading PR with a notebook at my side and will get as much out of that as possible.

more images with potential "footage" quality

more footage

pixelated them with "facet" in photoshop to make them less identifiable as whoever they are (plucked from web)

gil, i am reading PR again too: so far noted 1)beachscape, 2)rooftop with man- can't make out city no matter how much you zoom in- just lines an pattern, 3)long view in a formal park of girls and 4)(of course) THE KISS

also messing around with flash to see what we can do- some intriguing possiblities there to work wtih still images and impart "motion" to them

led

This message has been edited. Last edited by: lite_emitting_dee,

In my re-read of PR, I´m getting so much more than I did first time.

I´ll try and produce a comprehensive list of references to the footage in a week or so.

You don´t think I´m gettiung obsessive, do you? I don´t think I´ve ever spent so much time on a book in my life. Thank you, WG, for your body of work. Truly impressive and engrossing, all of it.... though I didn´t like The Difference Engine much.

'Not sure if this is of any interest, but it's something I made while noodling around with a DV cam when I first bought one.

http://www.matazone.co.uk/swffiles/film1.swf

Of course, the compression is all in Flash, but if you layer still image loops over 'proper' movie footage then you can create an effect of higher res film than you actually have.

BTW, the link has sound and it all loops too, so don't sit there waiting for it to end!

flash animation effects for still images at flash "footage"

i think you need to download it and save it to play it- sorry I am a complete newbie at this flash stuff. let me know if it works with just flash player- i am too busy to test it right now.

funny, Difference Engine is my least favorite too- good book, but didn't capture my imagination like the others. potential footage head screening question?

mata-nice effect! i like it. how do you layer the still image loops in flash?

led

If you want timeless then you might be best off going for black and white, or at least very heavily desaturated. The advances in colours and dyes could be a dead giveaway for any period setting.

Those Flash effects can only be seen with the full Flash software, and are only the ones that come pre-packaged with the software.

To layer the still image loops you simply create a new layer in Flash above the one that you have your footage on, then create a graphic instance of your image (right click> 'Convert to symbol...'), then if you want to animate that still image then do that in the new graphic-symbol's timeline. If you want to have it fading in and out like mine was then you can create another graphic-smybol to contain the first one, and use a tween to adjust the alpha levels over time (click on the symbol on the stage and then use the 'color' box in the properties panel).

The footage in the novel has a distinct beginning and end, using the method above is best for a piece of footage like that. If you want to make something that loops, such as mine does, then make the symbols movieclips, not graphics. If none of this is making any sense then I highly recommend the Friends Of ED books about Flash. Start off with 'Foundation Flash MX 2004' and then feel your way into the rest of the series.

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Originally posted by Mata:
If you want timeless then you might be best off going for black and white, or at least very heavily desaturated. The advances in colours and dyes could be a dead giveaway for any period setting.

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Yes. The book has several references to the colourlessness of the footage, but it's clearly unsaturated rather than b&w.